Activa - New Ball Joint making car lean.

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KevMayer
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Activa - New Ball Joint making car lean.

Post by KevMayer »

I've had a new lower balljoint fitted on nearside suspension and now my Activa pulls to the right and also leans to the right when it's parked.

I've had the tracking checked at my local tyre centre. Good reliable lads I've been using for years. They say the tracking was 3mm out at the front and 5mm out at the back. They've adjusted the front tracking and it still pulls to the right.

The suspension and steering were really good before the new ball joint. It seems to me like the wrong ball joint has been fitted.

Has anyone experienced anything like this ?

Cheers, Kev
Cheers, Kev

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Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
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Post by XantiaMan »

Sounds to me like the anti-roll linkage has been disturbed in the process, or even worse a non-activa lower arm fitted...
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Post by CitroJim »

I'm inclined to agree with gareth on that Kev. It'll be imperitive to check over the roll corrector linkages and go througn the set-up.

An Activa leaning a bit after an overnight stop is normal enough but it should not pull to one side or the other. Is it leaning when under way?

Changing the balljoint should not have needed a lower arm to be disturbed but do check the roll corrector linkages are not bent or binding. They're quite delicate and could have been bent in doing the balljoint. It depends on how the garage did it. I'm thinking if they pushed the lower arm down hard to make room to get the old balljoint out, it may have caused linkage problems.

One way to check the linkages is to run the car at normal height and then grab hold of the vertical part of the roll linkage on the balljoint accessible at the back of the inner wing and give it a tug toward and away from you. The car should lean in the direction you are tugging and return to normal when you let go. Do this on both sides.

My first Activa (now Gareth's) would tilt only one way due to a linkage seizure when I first had it. It leaned terribly and pulled.

Luckily, if any of the linkage rods are damaged/bent, they're cheap and easy to replace, along with the guide blocks.

Lastly, check the "eye" of the linkage is correctly bolted to the wishbone on the side they worked on and that its plastic inner is in place. I once had the bolt come loose fall out. The linkage dangled uselessly and gave much the same symptoms.

I have all the info for setting it up plus diagrams should you need them. let me know...
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Post by KevMayer »

My Activa has the front wheels off and it's on axle stands. The new ball joint looks ok and so does everything else. I think you are most probably spot on Jim with your diagnosis. I got the ball joint replaced by a local Citroen 'specialist' but I'm not sure that they understand the Activa setup, and I bet they pushed the lower arm down out of the way to replace the ball J. This wouldn't do the roll control rods any favours. At best, hopefully they may have strained the spring on the roll control actuator. I'll get underneath in the next couple of days and give it a good looking over and a squirt of lube.

Next thing I'll do is put the wheels back on and get the front up onto ramps. Suspension on normal height and get underneath whilst the engine is running and adjust the fittings on the ends of the roll control rods to get it sitting level.

I did this on my previous Blue Activa because that used to lean a lot when I first purchased it.

As long as I adjust both sides equally I will be able to maintain the same spring tension on each side of the roll actuator. Hopefully I'll get her sitting level and stop the pull to the right.

It's back to my C5 for a while. It's been parked up for a long time now as I can't resist doing my 50 mile, country lane, round trip to work in the Activa.

cheers, Kev
Cheers, Kev

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Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
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Post by Kowalski »

What are your tyres like? Cars with worn bushes, ball joints or bad tracking can wear the tyres in funny ways which can make a car pull one way or the other (but can't make it lean when parked). Have yours worn on an inside or outside shoulder in any abnormal way?
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Post by KevMayer »

My front tyres are both brand new.

My rear left is also brand new. The rear right is close to the legal limit.

The pull to the right is strongest at slow speed. If I'm in a traffic jam and let go of the steering wheel as I inch forward, the Activa would almost turn full circle in the width of the road. Well, it feels like it would veer off unless I pull it hard to the left.

Cheers, Kev
Cheers, Kev

02 plate C5 2.2 Hdi Exclusive SE (now 170k miles 03/21).

Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
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Post by KevMayer »

I've had a look at my Activa today.
The mechanism in the centre where the roll corrector is fitted was pretty much seized up. I took it all off and cleaned it up. Oiled and greased it now works a lot better. Item 11 in the picture :-

Image

To take it off I had to remove the adjusters on the inners ends of the linkages ('Reglage' in pic),) I also took the linkages off completely to check for any bending.
When I put it all back together I took it for a run and it seemed ok, but , now parked it leans heavily to the right.
I just need to go underneath and take a small amount of the pre tension off the right hand linkage.
I noticed a pre tension when I took the linkages off. There was a positive pull against the central spring mechanism (11) on both sets of linkage.
I suppose this pretension is one of the settings required.
I'll do a bit of trial and error to get it sitting level, but, ultimately, Your info might come in handy Jim.

cheers, Kev
Cheers, Kev

02 plate C5 2.2 Hdi Exclusive SE (now 170k miles 03/21).

Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
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Post by DickieG »

It now sounds as if you've got the pre-tension wrong, the spring in item 11 has to be centralized by turning both sides of the link bars equally and at the same time whilst maintaining the spring in a central position which is easier said than done to be honest, you'll need a fair degree of patience to get it right.

Did you also release/re-tighten the bolts where the linkage attaches to the wishbones?

Here's the link for doing it http://activaclubfrance.free.fr/Entreti ... 0SCCAR.pdf I can't find the English version at the moment
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Post by CitroJim »

Here's a PDF in English describing how to set up the roll corrector linkages.

It's essentially the same document as Richard's French one although it looks a bit differenet.
Jim

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Post by andmcit »

Interesting links/reading! Anyone fancy adding this and any other links
like it in the Activa area so they're easily found or identified!? :lol: :wink:

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Post by Pleiades »

In the picture above there are some little plastic bushes (part 16) these will need replacing.

On the Activa, these guide the control rod that connects to the lower wishbone, what happens is the control rod gets a bit of rust on it then gets rough, as the control rod moves inside the bush it acts like a grinder and grinds away at the inside of the bush making it oval inside and no longer holds the control rod secure.

When the rod is no longer tight in the bush it can cause all sorts of problems with the car not sitting level.

From memory the bush set is only about £6.00 from Citroen but you will either need the part number or print off the picture and show the spotty oik in the parts dept, otherwise you will get a blank look as soon as the word Activa is mentioned (Active what??)

Not saying that this will be the complete cure, but I will bet that they are worn and as I allways say, replace the obvious faults first.

Regards
Martin.
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Post by KevMayer »

Excellent stuff chaps.

I've been under my Activa this morning to make some adjustments.

Pleiades is spot on. My plastic supports are quite oval. The rod is worn down too. I think both the supports (16 in pic) and rods need to be replaced to give me a chance to get a true setup. I replaced these plastic supports on my previous Avtiva.

In the PDF files there's one Note which says 'N.B. These clamps must be centred at "4" (in the French version it says they should be centred at "a")

It looks to me like it should read "a" and not "4". However, it looks like this adjustment to get the clamps centred could be the check to make sure that you have the right amount of pre tension on the springs.

There's an obvious tension on the springs when you put this assembly all together, but, when I did it I wondered how I would be able to tell if I'd got the right tension on each side. Now I have the benefit of the two excellent PDF files (thanks DickieG and Citrojim) I believe the pretension could be right if you get the arms of the spring mechanism all centred so they all line up with hole "a".

Does anyone know if this is right ?

cheers, Kev

p.s. just had a thought... I've been doing the checks with the Activa at Maximum height setting because I had to jack it up to get it on axle stands. I'd probably have more success if I had it at Normal height and drove it up some ramps. The pretension I've mentioned may go away or reduce if I did this. Mmmmm....I'm sure I'll get there in the end.
Cheers, Kev

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Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
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Post by KevMayer »

Ok... It's starting to make sense.

I've just had my Activa at Normal height and the front wheels on ramps.

With the height at Normal there is NO PRETENSION. The pretension was due to my error in checking the setup with height at Maximum !! (You live and learn and that's now well learned ).

As per the PDF I adjusted both adjusting sleeves so that the thread end to end measured 73mm (I turned the locknuts out to the ends of the threads either side of each adjuster sleeve and measured over the nuts).

I ran the engine and had a slight lean to right. I went underneath and adjusted each sleeve the same and 3 flats turn on each gave me a level setup.

I still need new plastic supports (16) though. Then I can try again.

I checked the fixing of the spring adjuster arm mechanism (11) and found that there is some play when it's bolted in place, say + or - 1mm left or right. It's not a precise fit so that could affect the Activa's roll setup too. I just bolted it tight and then worked on the adjuster sleeves.

cheers, Kev
Cheers, Kev

02 plate C5 2.2 Hdi Exclusive SE (now 170k miles 03/21).

Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
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