Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

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a4gom
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by a4gom » 28 Sep 2008, 23:49

Started my dads car today ('98 xantia diesel estate), its been playing up starting if not done everyday (another story glow plugs / fuel) so nipped down today to start it while he is away. It took a good while to get it going but eventually started. To start I entered the 4 digit code and got the green light, after a while trying to start it I entered the code again, just in case and I think I might have still had a green light without realising. When I had entered the code I noticed the green light flashed a couple of times but I didn't pay much attention to it. The car did start shortly afterwards so I assumed everything was ok.
Just got a call from my dad who has returned from holiday and tried to start the car.... :( Car won't start, he can't get a green light on the keypad :( Have I done something? I only entered the same code and didn't press any other keys??

Help please

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Xaccers
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by Xaccers » 29 Sep 2008, 03:34

I see you suffer from the "My son has been here so he must have broken it" syndrome like I used to :D (dad's eh? who'd 'ave 'em?)

I've put the code into Cassy twice a couple of times before, she just bleeps and flashes the green light to say "Hey, I'm already done"

Does the immobiliser show the red light or is it completely dead?

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a4gom
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by a4gom » 29 Sep 2008, 08:49

I'm pretty sure this is right but it was quite late.
The red light was flashing slowly when the ignition was of, red light came on constant when ignition turned on, every press of a digit got a flash of the green light and a beep, my dad had tried the code 3 or 4 times with no joy before I got there, I had a go still no joy, eventually we had no lights and then the keypad locked us out. I.e. 30 mins of rapid flashing red and beeping. I didn't hang around as it was late but he rang me after the 30mins to tell me he had tried the code again after it had reset and it still wouldn't accept it.

Its as if the code has been changed but I cannot understand how as in the book everything to do with code changes etc needs you to press one of the other buttons i.e. C or S, I definately didn't press them?

I've tried doing a search on the net but not really found anything. In a couple of places it mentions disconnecting the battery, leaving it 30mins, turning the ignition to position 2, reconnectiong the battery and the code will be set back to 1111. I haven't tried this yet but it doesn't sound very secure if this is true?

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CitroJim
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by CitroJim » 29 Sep 2008, 10:07

Yes, basically, to change the code you need to enter the old code correctly, press "C", enter the new code and press "C" again. Impossible to do accidentially. Ditto the "Service" mode on the "S" key. Once you enter the normal running code it is cancelled anyway.

Even the factory workshop manuals offer no clue as to a "get out of jail free" card in case of a lockout.

I wonder if the starting difficulties and low battery voltage perhaps "spiked" it a bit?

Disconnecting the battery won't work as far as I know. I tried that on a Saxo the owner had locked out after having a senior moment.

The best way out of this is to get hold of another keypad with a known code and substitute that on a temporary basis. Use it to unlock the immobiliser and then, with the engine running, unplug it and leave it unplugged. You'll not have a keypad but at least you'll have running car.

Brand new keypads occasionally come up on eBay. They are either set to 0000 or 0001 by default.

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a4gom
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by a4gom » 29 Sep 2008, 10:10

Cheers Jim.

Spare keypad to borrow anyone?

We are in Keighley, West yorkshire but will travel (not in the xantia obviously :oops: )

wheeler
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by wheeler » 29 Sep 2008, 14:09

The code is stored in the ECU/pump module, if you plug in a brand new (or second hand) keypad the code will be exactly the same as the old keypad was.

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a4gom
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by a4gom » 29 Sep 2008, 14:11

so that won't work either then????

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CitroJim
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by CitroJim » 29 Sep 2008, 15:06

wheeler wrote:The code is stored in the ECU/pump module, if you plug in a brand new (or second hand) keypad the code will be exactly the same as the old keypad was.
Could have sworn it was stored in the keypad Wheeler :? hence why the disconnecting of it with the engine works to defeat it for all time. Well, that was my thoughts anyway :roll:

Still, thinking logically, if the code was stored in the keypad, given the ease of popping the keypad out of the console and swapping it for one with a known code would make it rather less effective that it is...


In that case, no option but to de-armour the pump, remove the immobiliser module wrapped around the stop solenoid and then arrange an ignition switched 12v supply to the stop solenoid.

I was mildly surprised to see the Lexia offers no "get our of jail free" card for instances like this.

There must be a way to retrieve such a solution without major pump surgery and ECU swaps :?

wheeler
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by wheeler » 29 Sep 2008, 16:18

citrojim wrote:
Still, thinking logically, if the code was stored in the keypad, given the ease of popping the keypad out of the console and swapping it for one with a known code would make it rather less effective that it is...
Exactly, it would be pointless if the code was in the keypad. The reason it stays unlocked if you disconnect with the engine running is because the ECU/pump module cant comunicate with the keypad to tell it to lock.
The old ELIT machine with the right harness could teporarily bypass the diesel pump module but only for testing it, strangley like you say it cant be done with Lexia or Proxia. the only official solution for a lost code is to replace the ECU/pump module.
There are people out there (that advertise on ebay) though that can retrieve the code if you send them the keypad, I had to query how they could do that when the code is stored in the ECU & the guy told me when they read the memory of the keypad with their software it can tell them the last code that worked & unlocked the ECU.

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CitroJim
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by CitroJim » 29 Sep 2008, 16:28

Thanks Wheeler, that's brilliant :D Again, it's a good job you're here :wink:

a4gom, sorry for the duff information earlier :oops:

Ummm. I have a spare keypad here and I know the code that last unlocked the ECU it worked with. The evenings are getting darker, so :-k

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a4gom
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by a4gom » 29 Sep 2008, 16:43

doesn't sound like we have much hope of an easy fix, whats best then, shall I sneak down tonight whilst he's out and set fire to it? :cry:

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Xaccers
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by Xaccers » 29 Sep 2008, 16:54

You could replace the pump with a non-immobiliser one from a scrappy.

uncle buck
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by uncle buck » 29 Sep 2008, 17:06

Any reason why you can't just feed an ignition switched live to the stop solenoid ?
Last edited by uncle buck on 29 Sep 2008, 17:20, edited 1 time in total.

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CitroJim
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by CitroJim » 29 Sep 2008, 17:11

uncle buck wrote:Any reason why can't just feed an ignition switched live to the stop solenoid ?
You can, easily, after you've removed the armour plating and lifted the immobiliser module off the stop solenoid.

This is essentially how to do it. Caution is advised as you have to get quite vicious with it and the mangled bolts holding the rotor head in place must be replaced with normal Torx bolts.

Alternatively, a local diesel specialist will remove the armour for a small fee. In any case, the pump must come off the car.

uncle buck
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Help Xantia imobolised, what have I done

Post by uncle buck » 29 Sep 2008, 17:30

citrojim wrote: You can, easily, after you've removed the armour plating and lifted the immobiliser module off the stop solenoid....
Though so ....it would save having to get another pump.