bosch pump job started! first problems...

lazza · Unread post by **lazza** » 22 Sep 2008, 10:27

HI

Well i got started on trying to get the fuel pump out. With my special magic bendy tool "pictures will follow later

" managed to get all the turbo air ducting off in a matter of minutes. Only to be stumped by the underneath bolt/screw of the fuel pump.

1. Any tips on how to get this off without removing the hydraulic pump (my car has aircon, which i think complicates the set up)? I am trying to get hold of a crescent-shaped spanner 13mm. Hoping this will save me having to take off the auxiliary belt and hydraulic pump.

2. Jim mentioned I may need a "C" shaped spanner to get the sprocket off.. what size do I need?

3. Out of interest what is the piston sequence for the XUD9 engine?

Many thanks
Larry

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 22 Sep 2008, 10:45

Hi Larry,

To get at this nut, you need one of these. a 13mm "Half Moon" spanner.

You also need very slim fingers, lots of Malcolm's "percywhatsit" and a lump of "Blu Tac". Mind the washer behind the nut. These are ESSENTIAL to prevent the nust loosening in service.

The XUD cylinders number the opposite from normal in that No.1 is at the flywheel end. Firing order is 1-3-4-2 as far as I know.

Do you need the dimensions of the special sprocket puller needed to get the pump sprocket off?

lazza · Unread post by **lazza** » 22 Sep 2008, 11:07

Hi Jim

thanks, yes, I've just order one over the internet.. lets see if the spanish post manages to deliver it before the end of the week.. ?

Yes please do let me know the dimensions...

thanks
Larry

ps i have lots of percywhatsit, not so sure about the slim fingers though.. have to get my girlfriend to help

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 22 Sep 2008, 13:34

lazza wrote:Hi Jim

thanks, yes, I've just order one over the internet.. lets see if the spanish post manages to deliver it before the end of the week.. ?

Yes please do let me know the dimensions...

thanks
Larry

ps i have lots of percywhatsit, not so sure about the slim fingers though.. have to get my girlfriend to help

yes but arent you ment to be fixing the car, you wont get any work done that way

regards malcolm

ps.
dont some injection pumps have a built in puller, i know on some of the BX's you could locl the sprocket and just undo the centre nut, which also pulled the sprocket off

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 22 Sep 2008, 16:55

citronut wrote: ps.
dont some injection pumps have a built in puller, i know on some of the BX's you could locl the sprocket and just undo the centre nut, which also pulled the sprocket off

The old ones did Malcolm, but not Xantias

They stopped fitting the built-in pullers in about 1991 'ish. Last one I saw was on a J plate 205GRD.

Here is the Jim puller rough sketch, literally off the back of an envelope

And a picture:

The M7 bolts are odd and not easy to get hold of. You can borrow a couple from the gearbox bellhousing where the main gearcase bolts to it. There's 11 or 12 there and a couple can be taken out for this with no harm whatsoever, just don't take two out next to each other!

When you remove the pump, have loads of rag strategically placed under the pump body to catch dropped nuts and washers and underneath the sprocket to catch the woodruff key if it makes a bid for freedom. Otherwise it may hide behind the cambelt tensioner and that means a lot of dismantling you don't really want to do

The material I made the puller from was just a scrap of ally bar. Nothing special.. The offset is important so that it clears the pump shaft thread on the end of the pump.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 22 Sep 2008, 20:00

so the two bolts which hold the power steering flow valve to the gear box (i just removed for you today Jim) will be just about right, as they are quite long and of 7mm thread

regards malcolm

lazza · Unread post by **lazza** » 23 Sep 2008, 08:11

HI Jim

many thanks for the dimensions of the puller. A couple of questions which make me feel quite stupid

:

1. How does it work?

2. As I dont have metal working equipment, in fact I only really have car tools right now, is it essential? Is there another way of taking the pump off? If not I can go to a local iron mongers and get one made up.

cheers
Larry

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 23 Sep 2008, 08:21

all you need is a sort length of metal a hack saw/angle grinder, electric drill and the means to hold it whilst working on it

regards malcolm

lazza · Unread post by **lazza** » 23 Sep 2008, 09:44

HI Malcolm

yes thanks, I dont have a drill yet.. just getting myself settled into a new house with very little stuff, suppose I could get one.. how essential is this tool?

ta

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 23 Sep 2008, 10:53

lazza wrote:HI Jim

1. How does it work?

Sorry Larry

Should have said!

Lock the sprocket using two M8 bolts and remove the big 21mm sprocket nut. loosen all the pump mounting nuts.

Put the bar of the tool across the end of the pump shaft and screw the two bolts into the tapped holes in the sprocket. Evenly tighten the bolts until the sprocket breaks from its taper.

Remove tool.

I'll post a picture of the tool in use this evening. The car and engine will be removed for clarity though

You can remove the pump complete on it's cradle but this means removing the cambelt and you still have a fiddly bolt and you'll still have the problem of removing the sprocket from the pump to allow the pump to come off the cradle to allow seal replacement.

Whichever way you look at it, this tool is essential. As malcolm says, it is easy to make with only very basic tools/facilities.

lazza · Unread post by **lazza** » 23 Sep 2008, 11:08

Thanks for all this.

A picture would be very useful.

Haynes manual never said anything about removing the sprocket nut, or needing a tool to take the pump off.

cheers
Larry

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 23 Sep 2008, 11:11

No worries Larry, a picture will be with you this evening.

lazza wrote: Haynes manual never said anything about removing the sprocket nut, or needing a tool to take the pump off.

That's why we call it the BoL (Book of Lies) around here. It good in some ways but in others it is atrocious.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 23 Sep 2008, 16:55

Here is a shot of the puller in use.

Car, engine and pump cradle have been removed for clarity...

And here is the official Citroen tool in use:

These are the Citroen special tools for pump removal. The puller is in the middle. The other tool is the pump sprocket holding tool for use when loosening the centre nut.

Ed · Unread post by Ed » 23 Sep 2008, 18:06

I have removed 3 bosch pumps in my time, and each time without this special tool.

IIRC there are 2 M8 locking pin threaded holes behind the pump sprocket. If you get a long enough M8 bolt, you can wind into one of these holes (the one nearest the front) until it makes contact with the pump. You may want to turn the pump so you get maximum contact area with the end of the bolt against the pump. Then as you do up the bolt it will force the pump and should free it from the taper.

This has worked for me at least 3 times. Obviously make sure you have the sprocket nut removed first, and that you turn the pump so that the end of the bolt makes contact with it, as it's possible for the pump to be in such a postion that the bolt will miss it.

lazza · Unread post by **lazza** » 24 Sep 2008, 08:29

HI

thanks for these replies. Have some questions.

1. My M8 bolts, I think are long enough for Ed´s suggestion. Is there any harm in trying this method?

2. I have found M7 bolts but they are 35mm and have couple of centimetres of no thread... I will try to attach a picture.. will these work for the tool??

3. I am confused that you need another tool to stop the sprocket from turning. Surely the two M8 bolts will hold the sprocket in place, whilst undoing the sprocket nut?

4. Also how do you stop the shaft turning, and hence messing up the timing on the pump as the taper is being remover?

The spanish all think i'm stark raving bonkers, noone fixes their own car here, especially if they're as green as me... well i hope to demonstrate some british ingenuity...