Xantia TD wont start

[jgra1]

Well, a year after ownership, and for the first time out of no-where, its not gonna start

the starter does about 1 rev per minute

the battery is fine.. so I am guessing the solenoid's died very suddenly....

or the brushes....

is there a relay as well? coud it be the ignition switch? I can't see how..

I have a spare motor at home, and it bumps well with the key being turned..

any thoughts

john

[MikeT]

If this is the engine you overhauled, is it possible it's just a cable needs retightening?

[jgra1]

hmm.. possible Mike.. yep same engine..

3000 miles since rebuild...

its not clicking or intermittent, the starter is just getting no juice at all really..

[CitroJim]

John, have you checked the earth strap from the battery down onto the gearbox? Amazing how things can come loose after a major rebuild. This one is only really needed for the starter and charging current as all the rest of the earthig is on the bodyshell and things like stop solenoids have their own earths and can tolerate bad ones as the currents involved are tiny.

Either that or simply bad battery connections. Don't rule out a duff battery as well. They can seem fine until they are called on to deliver a couple of hunderd amps to the starter and then object. It only takes one cell to be a little off-colour and the whole battery is duff.

Did you do up the nut that secures the heavy starter feed cable onto the solenoid. I know this nut of old Access is not the best and it can feel done up when it isn't.

My massive sorrys if this all sounds a bit granny suck eggs to one as able as you John...

Starter motors either stop totally or start to work intermittently. It is rare indeed for a starter to suddenly run very slowly. A duff solenoid normally goes intermittent at first. My bet is the starter itself is OK.

If you try a start with headlamps on, do they dim appreciably when trying to start? If they stay nice and bright, the battery is OK. have you tried jumping it?

[jgra1]

hi Jim, just bumped it and its running outside the office

Head Lights stay very bright when starting as do all dash lights...

Have checked main wire to solenoid but not yet earth strap.. off home now to have a better look , live on a hill so can self start ok later

Battery would get worse over time, this is on my 5 mile journey to work today..

Got me 5 hours around M25 yesterday evening

let y'all know.

[jgra1]

well I am a bit baffled..

checked earth to gearbox, it's tight..

ran a lead from the Pos terminal to the main feed from solenoid to starter, and it made no difference, i.e. was still turning over slowly..

I guess that proved that the solenoid was ok..

changed starter motor (and solenoid) and still no difference..

The battery must be the cause? fine this morning (and last 12 months) and gone after a short trip..


Battery voltage is about 12.5, I even put two other (half decent) batteries in parallel and no difference

[CitroJim]

The battery must be the cause? fine this morning (and last 12 months) and gone after a short trip..

Gosh I've known them die competely that suddenly John but never like that, good enough to keep headlamps bright with a very slow starter.

before shelling out money on a new battery, I'd be very inclinded to try a know good 'un first.

An outside possibility is that one or other of the heavy cables is corroded inside where you cannot see it, either at a terminal (the battery terminals are a favourite) or wherethe outer insulation may have become damaged and let water in.

This'll be a definitive test. Put a voltmeter straight across the battery whilst cranking and measure the voltage. Then move to voltmeter to the large nut on the solenoid and earth the voltmeter to the engine block or starter housing. Crank again and note the voltage. they should be substantially similar. If they are substantially different, one or other of the cables are high-resistance.

[citronut]

check the electrolite as i had one years ago that would start the car easyly for about 6 months the all of a sudden come out one morrning to find it just did not have quite enough go to turn the starter, top the levels up,jump start and she would go for another 6 months,


BUT PLEASE DONT BUMP START A DIESEL,

as the torque involved can smash the clutch plate to bits, i have seen this after a new customer camt to me to have a new clutch fitted, and said he hadf been bump startting the car for a couple of weeks as it would not start of the key, turned out he had three dead glow plugs

regards malcolm

[jgra1]

sometimes I dispair

I checked the obvious earth I remebered re attaching after gearbox fit.. small green bugger

dooh

there is of course the main black earth from battery terminal too

anyway, it was fine

but.. I conected a little jump lead from the post where it connects to the gearbox, too the middle of the starter holding bolts..

perfect

sod it..
at least I know the other starter is good.. and the whole job has taken 50 mins

there must be an internal fracture in the main battery cable, or the post is not making a good connection to the gearbox.. leaving the 'jumper' on tonight as I need to do other things..

thanks all

[jgra1]

Malcolm thanks for that.. I never knew... I have often bump started my 6 TD's.. must have been lucky..

I remember years ago working at a garage and was told in some cases not to start a vehicle with clutch peddle down ? for a similar reason....anyway.. important lesson..

[jgra1]

what about Jumping timing belts...

My dad was told this can esaily be caused by bumping a diesel..

I can see why now I think about it...

[citronut]

yep i can see that being possible
regards malcolm

[lolingram]

BUT PLEASE DONT BUMP START A DIESEL,

as the torque involved can smash the clutch plate to bits

ABSOLUTELY... in extremis, engage 3rd gear (or even 4th), and as you release the clutch, engage the starter - even a semi-flat battery will add some energy and help the engine over compression, which will help avoid possible gearbox/clutch/driveshaft failure...