Shaky Xantia

ids987 · Post by **ids987** » 28 Aug 2008, 14:05

Hi There,

Looking for advice / opinions on the following please:
As in the title, the car is suffering from a shaking kind of vibration. I first noticed it through the gear lever, but as it has got worse, it is very noticeable through the floor, and throughout the car. It starts between 20 and 40 - mostly under acceleration, especially going uphill (so under load basically), is at its worst between 40 and 50, and is mostly gone by 70 or so.
I have just had new front tyres and wheels balanced - with no change. Two mechanics from the place who did the tyres looked at it. One said "it's definitely from the back of the car". The other thinks it's probably the diff, but advised me to take it to a transmission specialist. My gut feeling is that it's the offside driveshaft or its carrier bearing. I have run the car in gear with each of the front wheels off the ground, and I get similar (though not so violent) shaking through much the same "speed" range with the offside wheel off the ground, but not with the nearside wheel off the ground.
The mechanic who thought it was the diff said this partly because it is more evident through the gearstick, and he could see marks near the engine mounts - where things have rubbed due to the whole engine and gearbox assembly thrashing around.
Car is 2000 / W Reg 2.0i 16V petrol estate.
Any thoughts or opinions are gratefully received.

Thanks in Advance:
Ian

dnsey · Post by **dnsey** » 28 Aug 2008, 17:26

What state are your engine mounts in (especially the bottom 'doughnut'? If the engine's 'thrashing about', they'd be a prime suspect!

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 28 Aug 2008, 17:51

I can't see how it can be the diff. If it were I think there would be some noise - and probably bits of broken bearing in the oil.

My money is on the OS driveshaft. Is it quiet or does it make noises when the car is driven on full lock? Can you detect any play in the joints? Does it make any noises when you turn the wheel with the car jacked up?

As someone has mentioned the engine mounts are worth a look. I have a BX Turbo-diesel - and I've had the mount by the cambelt fail twice and have replaced the one at the bottom of the engine and never noticed any real difference - but that doesn't mean it isn't worth inspecting them. You can probably see the bottom one with the engine running if you raise the car and look at it from the drivers door area. They can break up.

Does it do it in all gears or just one? Is there any difference between drive and overrun?

My BX has for a long time (probably ever since I've had it) rattled the gear lever in 5th on acceleration. I've never been able to find the cause - but understand that there can be internal troubles with the 5th gear coming loose. As the shaft can get damaged I've left it alone for the time being and must try and find a spare gearbox one day.

ids987 · Post by **ids987** » 28 Aug 2008, 18:13

Thanks for the replies so far. I haven't been right underneath yet, but the guys who looked at it (one of the exhaust, tyre, servicing, MOT etc chains), reckoned the engine mounts were ok. If it was caused by engine mounts, I'm guessing it would judder pulling away etc as well ? which it doesn't.
It doesn't give the classic knocking on full lock of a worn outer CV joint either, so if it is a driveshaft problem, I suspect it is the inner CV joint, or the carrier bearing. I guess an inner CV joint would also explain why much of the shaking goes through the transmission and block. The shaking does seem to change with steering though - generally better steering right, and generally worse steering left. This doesn't seem totally predictable though, so I guess it depends on other factors too.

Ian

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 28 Aug 2008, 18:37

hi Ian this happened to a friends ZX

an inner 'tri ax' joint had dried up and broken apart... (short DS I think)

vibes only on acceleration, especially in 2/3 rd gears..

was quite obvious the joint was gone... very loose..

worth a look

John

ids987 · Post by **ids987** » 29 Aug 2008, 14:51

Thanks again to all who have replied. Looks like I will be under the car at some point over the weekend - trying to feel for play.
I will post up any conclusions.

Ian

Quackers · Post by **Quackers** » 29 Aug 2008, 15:17

I had same thing happen to my first Xantia. Acceleration would cause the gear stick to shake from side to side violently, the floor would have a wobble vibrate feel, was my drive shafts.

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 29 Aug 2008, 17:32

hi Ian this happened to a friends ZX

an inner 'tri ax' joint had dried up and broken apart... (short DS I think)

vibes only on acceleration, especially in 2/3 rd gears..

was quite obvious the joint was gone... very loose..

worth a look

John

I'd put money on a driveshaft inner joint too...

reblack68 · Post by **reblack68** » 29 Aug 2008, 18:16

Mine is doing the same. Can you swap the inner joints side for side like on the old SAABs? On the SAAB you could double the life of the joints that way.

Downunder · Post by **Downunder** » 29 Aug 2008, 23:52

Mine does the same and has done so forever. I replaced right side driveshaft - no change. The intermediate housing is perfect. I think it therefore must be the LHS driveshaft. More opinions gratefully received. Happens only under heavy acceleration at low speed.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 30 Aug 2008, 07:58

I agree with the inner driveshaft joint diagnosis, one thing you can try to determine what side is causing the vibration is to support the car on axle stands with wheels off of the ground then get an assistant to 'drive' the car whilst you observe the vibration.

The only stumbling block with using this method is that the driveshafts will be in a slightly different running position unless you also lower the suspension then use a large trolley jack/axle stand to support each suspension arm to achieve a 'normal' ride height. However be very careful as you don't need much imagination so see the potential safety issue of a spinning wheel hitting the jack/axle stand. Now that would ruin your day.

reblack68 · Post by **reblack68** » 31 Aug 2008, 00:00

I had a look under mine today. The bottom engine mount seems very soft (I could move it by rocking a wheel with the car in gear) and looks as if it's breaking up. I've ordered replacement bushes from Euro so I'll see if that helps before getting involved with driveshafts.

triumphtoledo · Post by **triumphtoledo** » 03 Sep 2008, 19:06

I fitted an aftermarket driveshaft to my BX (a recon one), which caused the gearlever to shake so badly, I took the part back

evildiesels · Post by **evildiesels** » 04 Sep 2008, 11:06

I had exactly the same problem on a 98 xantia, pulled the drivers side outer CV joint off and there was no wear in it, pulled the entire driveshaft assy out and stripped down the inner Tripod joint. I found that only in one area where the tripod joint bearing races slide up and down the drive carrier there was about a half mil of wear which had made a nice indent, perfect for the bearing race to lock into under power as it was on the drive side of the carrier slide area.

Of course you can't buy any of that sh!t in NZ so I got a hard facing rod and arc welded up the wear and ground it down till it was as smooth as original, cleaned up the needle bearing assys, repacked with grease and refitted. Problem solved, after thinking about it it made sense, the bearing was being locked into the worn area on the carrier under torque and therefore couldn't slide up and down the carrier as per normal, causing the oscillating/wobble. Get your mechanics to pull it off and have a look, pretty sure that will be the problem man.

Good luck dude and let us know how you get on

ids987 · Post by **ids987** » 08 Sep 2008, 16:38

Well, thanks for all the replies.
Looks like the general consensus is veering towards my suspicions.
I decided to have another try at "driving" it with the wheels raised the other day. This time I tried to look underneath whilst running the offside wheel - to try and eyeball for anything vibrating. Whilst doing this, the offside ABS ring split in two, and was thrown off. I've had an intermittent problem with the ABS light coming on at motorway speeds for a while. I guess I know why now. I believe the ABS ring is part and parcel of the outer CV joint, and I suspect the shaking is due to the inner CV joint on the same side, so I have booked it in to have the offside driveshaft replaced. I'm afraid to say I really don't have the time to do it myself at the moment.
I'll post again once it's been done.....

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