Dying Diesel Xantia TD
Moderator: RichardW
Dying Diesel Xantia TD
Right, I'm at the end of my tether...
and right from the start, I want to go on record as saying I have a very
strong hatred of Diesel engines despite the fact I have a fair few of them.
It's getting to the irrational John Cleese tree branch moment!
OK, the car is TD VSX estate with all the bells and whistles but seemingly it's
trying REALLY hard to confound all my efforts to get it running and legal at
every stage in proceedings.
The real issue kicked off just around earlier in the year when the car had
been left untouched for a good few months and resisted every attempt to
get it to run. I eventually found some weird homebrew wood polish in the
diesel tank and have since been able to coax it to run but do no than tick
over with absolutely no dice with revving the engine.
I've just tried fitting a new feed prime bulb and length of secure feed
pipe and a new diesel filter in the already clean housing and in desperation
tried some diesel system cleaner run from a new 5l can of the full hard
stuff from the Shell pump!
The engine just won't do more than run at idle though it does start up
happily enough. The priming bulb never really gets hard or flaccid but
if I help the diesel pump by pumping the priming bulb the engine does
perk up and will rev a little bit but nothing like the other TD engined
Xantiae nearby.
Is the pump knackered having been allowed to run of some total rubbish
homebrew that has settled into layers in the tank?
I'm totally fed up with it all despite it being a very desirable car on the
appearance of all the facts.
Andrew
and right from the start, I want to go on record as saying I have a very
strong hatred of Diesel engines despite the fact I have a fair few of them.
It's getting to the irrational John Cleese tree branch moment!
OK, the car is TD VSX estate with all the bells and whistles but seemingly it's
trying REALLY hard to confound all my efforts to get it running and legal at
every stage in proceedings.
The real issue kicked off just around earlier in the year when the car had
been left untouched for a good few months and resisted every attempt to
get it to run. I eventually found some weird homebrew wood polish in the
diesel tank and have since been able to coax it to run but do no than tick
over with absolutely no dice with revving the engine.
I've just tried fitting a new feed prime bulb and length of secure feed
pipe and a new diesel filter in the already clean housing and in desperation
tried some diesel system cleaner run from a new 5l can of the full hard
stuff from the Shell pump!
The engine just won't do more than run at idle though it does start up
happily enough. The priming bulb never really gets hard or flaccid but
if I help the diesel pump by pumping the priming bulb the engine does
perk up and will rev a little bit but nothing like the other TD engined
Xantiae nearby.
Is the pump knackered having been allowed to run of some total rubbish
homebrew that has settled into layers in the tank?
I'm totally fed up with it all despite it being a very desirable car on the
appearance of all the facts.
Andrew
Last edited by andmcit on 25 Aug 2008, 21:31, edited 1 time in total.
Have you removed the pick up from the fuel tank and checked that its clear?
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2002 Ford Fiesta Zetec S
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Yep, that's where I found 2/3's of a tank of stuff that didn't resembleXantiaMan583 wrote:Have you removed the pick up from the fuel tank and checked that its clear?
diesel. I emptied the tank and put 10 litres of the proper stuff in instead.
Just to be totally sure, that's why I tried to bypass the tank and the feed
lines by running the feed pipe off a can of pure diesel rested on the
windscreen wipers and drawn through using the primer bulb.
Still no dice so although the diesel pump looks like it's pulling as hard as
it can, there just doesn't seem to be enough diesel to get the injectors to
rev the engine.
Andrew
Last edited by andmcit on 25 Aug 2008, 21:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Hi Andrew,
I guess you have taken the fuel pickup out of the tank and checked the strainer gauze is not choked with rubbish... Thought so..
Right. Disconnect the fuel feed banjo at the pump, pop it in a jamjar and squeeze the primer bulb. Do you get a good squirt of diesel out? You should be able to fill the jar is no time at all. You should be able to pump a good volume using the primer bulb in a short time. Xac and I once filled a 20L jerrycan just using the primer and it did not seem to take that long...
Check the banjo bolts are not blocked. They have quite small holes in them and make sure the fuel inlet and return banjo bolts have not been inadvertantly swapped over in your search for the problem. The return banjo has very tiny holes in it and if it is on the feed side, the engine will do exactly what yours is doing.
Slip off the fuel return pipe and check it is not blocked by blowing down it. You should be able to make the fuel in tha tank bubble easily enough. If the return is blocked, that'll cause all kinds of problems.
To prove the pump beyond all doubt, rig up a temporary gravity fuel feed from a suitable container straight into the pump fuel inlet.
If it still does the same, the injectors may be blocked and need an overhaul..
Don't give up yet. Diesels are simpler than petrols and if the pump is duff, it's not hard to swap, just incredibly fiddly.
I doubt it is the pump but this'll prove it.
I guess you have taken the fuel pickup out of the tank and checked the strainer gauze is not choked with rubbish... Thought so..
Right. Disconnect the fuel feed banjo at the pump, pop it in a jamjar and squeeze the primer bulb. Do you get a good squirt of diesel out? You should be able to fill the jar is no time at all. You should be able to pump a good volume using the primer bulb in a short time. Xac and I once filled a 20L jerrycan just using the primer and it did not seem to take that long...
Check the banjo bolts are not blocked. They have quite small holes in them and make sure the fuel inlet and return banjo bolts have not been inadvertantly swapped over in your search for the problem. The return banjo has very tiny holes in it and if it is on the feed side, the engine will do exactly what yours is doing.
Slip off the fuel return pipe and check it is not blocked by blowing down it. You should be able to make the fuel in tha tank bubble easily enough. If the return is blocked, that'll cause all kinds of problems.
To prove the pump beyond all doubt, rig up a temporary gravity fuel feed from a suitable container straight into the pump fuel inlet.
If it still does the same, the injectors may be blocked and need an overhaul..
Don't give up yet. Diesels are simpler than petrols and if the pump is duff, it's not hard to swap, just incredibly fiddly.
I doubt it is the pump but this'll prove it.
Jim
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Andrew and everyone,
I have just rebooted the webserver. Hopefully now it'll be happier..
Gareth, sorry for saying exactly what you said. I was posting, getting errors and rebooting at the same time....
EDIT: The reboot has not helped much I tried
I have just rebooted the webserver. Hopefully now it'll be happier..
Gareth, sorry for saying exactly what you said. I was posting, getting errors and rebooting at the same time....
EDIT: The reboot has not helped much I tried
Jim
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That's different I guess; just had a new forum message:
Service Unavailable
Ok, I've tried the feed direct to the pump with gravity giving a helping hand.
I've searched everything out for air leaks and the tank has also been
stripped out and checked and cleaned.
Other issue is the pump; I have two known good working one's but they're
not identical to the one on the car despite being off similarly aged Xantiae!
The removal of the pump isn't a big issue, I just don't fancy the faff to find
it isn't the failing item! Just to recap, the car ran OK in rude health about
this time last year and the thing that's now knocked it off course is a lay
up where I spent my time having other 'issues' in my life.
Andrew
Service Unavailable
Ok, I've tried the feed direct to the pump with gravity giving a helping hand.
I've searched everything out for air leaks and the tank has also been
stripped out and checked and cleaned.
Other issue is the pump; I have two known good working one's but they're
not identical to the one on the car despite being off similarly aged Xantiae!
The removal of the pump isn't a big issue, I just don't fancy the faff to find
it isn't the failing item! Just to recap, the car ran OK in rude health about
this time last year and the thing that's now knocked it off course is a lay
up where I spent my time having other 'issues' in my life.
Andrew
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Found the cause. A "guest" using and IP address from the 3 (three) network had spawned hundreds of instances.andmcit wrote:That's different I guess; just had a new forum message:
Service Unavailable
I've had to ban that address to get the forum working properly again. Be warned I may have to ban 3 IP addresses competely!
Jim
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Can you, preferably in pictures Andrew, show me the differences in the pumps please. I can then ID them.andmcit wrote: Other issue is the pump; I have two known good working one's but they're
not identical to the one on the car despite being off similarly aged Xantiae!
Silly question and I'm sure I've asked it before. Is the K light on?
Jim
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Jim, No K light. I'll take pics of all 3 pumps...
In fact, I have an older one as well but that's off a '93 model so a totally
different set up. The physical visible difference between the pump on the
car and the other spares is it's square micro switch in black on the top of
the main pump to the offside near a main circular 1-2" casting lug on the
crown of the pump.
The other two don't have anything on the top face of the pump.
Andrew
In fact, I have an older one as well but that's off a '93 model so a totally
different set up. The physical visible difference between the pump on the
car and the other spares is it's square micro switch in black on the top of
the main pump to the offside near a main circular 1-2" casting lug on the
crown of the pump.
The other two don't have anything on the top face of the pump.
Andrew
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Could the injectors be gummed up with the sludge that was spooned out of the tank? If its a possibility then the pump would also be filled with the sludge.
What about the algae microbe thing that Diesels get when not being used? If an unknown substance was spooned out of the tank I would wonder if any water would be in the system leading to the growth of that algae in the tank/pipes/filter and the pump/injectors.
What about the algae microbe thing that Diesels get when not being used? If an unknown substance was spooned out of the tank I would wonder if any water would be in the system leading to the growth of that algae in the tank/pipes/filter and the pump/injectors.
To be fair, I was expecting to see something like algae in the pipes and tank,
but the solution of whatever it was was very thin - I do not kid you, it looked
and smelled like wood polish from my days of school woodwork where they
had us carving leaping dolphins etc!! The colour was nothing like a
similar jar of REAL diesel I used to compare things.
I did think the proprietary solvent diesel system cleaner would help matters
but may need a while to run through and take effect which I possibly haven't
done. I've removed the blanking end leak off pipe and the fuel is clean and
correct. If it's not the pump playing up it points to a duff injector on a petrol
car yet the engine seems happy to idle - just NOT do anything else.
Andrew
but the solution of whatever it was was very thin - I do not kid you, it looked
and smelled like wood polish from my days of school woodwork where they
had us carving leaping dolphins etc!! The colour was nothing like a
similar jar of REAL diesel I used to compare things.
I did think the proprietary solvent diesel system cleaner would help matters
but may need a while to run through and take effect which I possibly haven't
done. I've removed the blanking end leak off pipe and the fuel is clean and
correct. If it's not the pump playing up it points to a duff injector on a petrol
car yet the engine seems happy to idle - just NOT do anything else.
Andrew
Last edited by andmcit on 25 Aug 2008, 23:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Try disconnecting the return pipe from the pump and let it flow in to a suitable vessel. I had a car with a Perkins 4/108 engine some years ago with exactly the same symptoms, it happened after the engine had boiled, it had got so hot that it melted and sealed the return pipe. I know that yours has a different pump but I still think it will be affected by a pressure build up in the pump.
Maybe someone has been running veg oil thinned with white spirt or Isopropyl alchohol. You could run a biocide in your temporary fuel tank but they aint cheap enough to experiment with. I payed about 14 quid for half litre at Yacht Chandlers.
I think it is sludge somewhere.
I think it is sludge somewhere.
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Please shoot me down in flames here but the symptoms you describe sound just like a blocked fuel filter although you say it wont rev even when not under load a classic sign of which is it wont rev under load but will when not under load.
I see that Jim has said about the return pipe already and that you have bypassed the filter and insitu fuel lines som assuming you are operating the throttle from inside the engine compartment are you sure that the throttle body is doing what it should as i would imagine the car would start with semi blocked injectors and tick over without any noticeable signs of anything wrong
Colin
I see that Jim has said about the return pipe already and that you have bypassed the filter and insitu fuel lines som assuming you are operating the throttle from inside the engine compartment are you sure that the throttle body is doing what it should as i would imagine the car would start with semi blocked injectors and tick over without any noticeable signs of anything wrong
Colin