R reg 1.9TD Xantia drive belt pulley problem!!

Unread post by **admiral51** » 24 Aug 2008, 15:15

Hi all
Have just returned from 1500 mile trip (2 weeks)

and now im home the drive belt has shredded and im pretty sure this is the problem

this roller is the top one and moves freely as does the other roller and the pulleys (HP and A/C)

Is this going to be an expensive fix and would you err on the side of caution and replace both rollers

Thanks in advance

Colin

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 24 Aug 2008, 15:44

Mine was £85 from eurocar parts

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 24 Aug 2008, 18:16

Something looks very wrong there, that's for sure! Whilst its a plastic idler
pulley the way its broken suggests something has dropped into andcaught
the pulley!

The pulley in its carrier is around 40plus Vat from GSF and the spring and
second idler roller are about the same apiece.

Andrew

uncle buck · Unread post by **uncle buck** » 24 Aug 2008, 19:02

If the aux belt has shredded I would as a precaution remove the timing belt cover & make sure that none of it has found its way inside as they have a nasty habit of doing this....a few miles later your engine goes bang all because a little piece of the aux belt has caused the timing belt to jump a few teeth or come off altogether.

Unread post by **admiral51** » 24 Aug 2008, 19:20

thanks for the replies think i may have got very lucky on this one
the aux belt didnt shred too badly and it had only been on the car for 4 weeks

i had just returned home and as i switched the engine off i heard it go this car has just had the head/valves rebuilt before i got it because the previous aux belt took the cam belt out. will have to have words with the mec who did the cam/aux and water pump to see if he noticed anything when he did it my money is on the fact it has been like it for a while

Colin

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 25 Aug 2008, 13:28

If it helps orientate things I've got these grainy pics to illustrate the
general arrangement of these pulleys/tensioners of parts I've had
lying about in the garage for ages and, er kinda 'lost'

:

The GSF listing for these is:

N13171 RIBBED BELT TENSIONER XAN 1.9TD + AIR 96> 58.50

N13179 RIBBED BELT TENSIONER XANTIA 1.9TD + AIRCON 36.90

N13179B RIBBED BELT TENSIONER XAN 1.9TD + AIR 96> SELL WITH N13179 38.50

The spring mounts between the rear of the square drive on the carrier of
the tensioner shown in both pics and athe lug in the 1 o clock position on
the bracket in the top picture!

If I've got this right (don't quote me though), the first more expensive
listing is the eccentric idler, the second is the tensioner with the carrier
and the third is the tensioner spring. Obviously, your GSF blokey will
help here too!

Andrew

f00lzz · Unread post by **f00lzz** » 25 Aug 2008, 13:47

Hmmm I wonder if the first time the cambelt broke it was caused by the auxillary belt entering the cambelt cover, caused by defective belt or defective tensioner/idler pulleys! Then, either the pulleys weren't replaced or the wrong size belt was fitted which, if too tight, would quickly scrap the pulleys and the replacement belt..!!!!!

Unread post by **admiral51** » 25 Aug 2008, 19:52

f00lzz wrote:Hmmm I wonder if the first time the cambelt broke it was caused by the auxillary belt entering the cambelt cover, caused by defective belt or defective tensioner/idler pulleys! Then, either the pulleys weren't replaced or the wrong size belt was fitted which, if too tight, would quickly scrap the pulleys and the replacement belt..!!!!!

Just to give a bit more background to the history of the car as known to me

The aux belt snapped and took the cambelt with it in early march 2008.the garage i bought it from in april 2008 had replaced head gasket valves etc plus cambelt and aux belt that was one of the big reasons for buying from a garage at 125000 miles and £500

after spending a few weeks ironing out small problems i noticed the aux belt was out of line by one groove and seemed a little loose

but after a few days it was back in line and the condition was ok maybe another little sign i missed

As i couldnt be sure if the water pump had been changed when the other work was done (garage couldnt remember ie no

) i decided to get the correct aux belt from citroen and get the water pump done and for piece of mind i had the cam belt replaced call it gut instinct or overkill

The one thing i didnt do and one that was a big mistake was to find the reason why the aux belt snapped in the first place

Unfortunately i have not got the time know how to get this sorted so its going to go back tio the mechanic from work to see if he missed/forgot to check the pulley/roller condition

Fortunately i have use of a wagon with a winch and beaver tail so this should be done before the end of the week and will keep everyone updated
thanks again for all your input and im still betting on it being the roller being at fault for the original belt failure and with a correct size belt just made the situation worse

Colin

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 25 Aug 2008, 21:40

I hope you do get to the bottom of this Colin as it seems to be the achiles heel of our xantia, considering the potential damage it can do.

Considering the state of the crank pullet and damper that Jim & I found on my white one and the following aux belt problems thereafter I'm glad I got shot of it but from all the problems reported on here since, it's obviously not an isolated problem.

Would a photo of my tensioner be any help to you?

Unread post by **admiral51** » 25 Aug 2008, 23:55

Hi Mike
Glad to see you are progressing well with your rebuild i dont envy one bit

(i do really like to get my hands dirty but.....SWMBO says.....

)

A picture of your good rollers etc would be great as it would give us all a comparison between good and bad i must admit i thought they were metal but im prepared to proved wrong

As you know last year i had the time to mess about with cars but no money and now ive a bit of money but no time so im afraid its off to the garage/works mechanic for me as i need both cars running but im going to keep the knackered roller to try and find out why it went so bad

I take my hat off to you for doing what your doing with your Xantia i feel a bit of a light weight compared to you

Colin

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 26 Aug 2008, 15:29

Hi Colin, Sorry I've made a promise I can't keep

I didn't remove my aux tensioner or idler pulley - it was the cambelt one's I'd removed! Silly me.

I know exactly what you mean of the direct relationship to work/money and spare time. As you know, this job has taken me several months owing to my limited ability, compared to John's complete overhaul in a few weekends/evenings

And I wouldn't have dreamed of attempting if it weren't for the kind folk of this forum supervising/advising and their collective wisdom. Having said that, I'm sure you know, it's the re-assembly that really counts which is yet to come! My good fortune is the car cost me little money and should be easily recouped if the HG repair doesn't work.

Unread post by **admiral51** » 02 Sep 2008, 20:15

Just a quick update on this particular problem

Had the car trailered into work and finally got the part delivered today from GSF. The mechanic at work duly fitted new roller and aux belt and all seemed well

Upon arriving home i was sure i could hear a squeak/squeal that was not there when i left work so popped bonnet and had quick look.... the aux belt has a very fine lip on it about 2mm from outer edge on its flat surface nearest to the engine

looking at the position of the belt it lines up perfectly on all pulleys and the bottom roller but is running about 2mm off the top roller and the roller itself seems to be slightly angled away from the alignment of the pulleys

As i understand it the belt has no lateral movement available to it so any clues as why in less than 20 miles im facing the probability of at best a new aux belt

Is it possible for the new roller to have been fitted wrongly or now have moved

Colin

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 02 Sep 2008, 23:33

Colin: not being disparaging about your fitter mechanic blokey, but could
the top roller be loose and bending under the strain of the spring? If the
roller is new there can't be issues with the bearing pivot.

Wont be the first time a new part failed with a manufacturing defect either.

Andrew

f00lzz · Unread post by **f00lzz** » 03 Sep 2008, 17:10

Are you sure the correct size belt was fitted (3 variants I think)

Unread post by **admiral51** » 03 Sep 2008, 18:58

Got car in to work today and this is the situation

Having driven the car for 28 miles the new roller is now looking the same as the one in the original pictures well and truly £$%^**

is the outer part of the roller metal or plastic seems odd that a rubber belt can take chunks out of metal i kmow im really stuck on this one and im not 100% sure of the grease monkey but im sort off stuck with him although he did imply tonight that he didnt look to closely as to why it did the damage first time just replaced parts dont think he took carrier arm off mentioned something about the springs being a bit of a pig to do so you can see what im assuming

but im only having to pay for parts not labour

as for the belt i got the first one for when he did the cambelt/waterpump and i got that from main stealers sure it was correct as they even got underneath it to find out what A/C compressor it had

he is going to pull it all apart tomorrow even the carrier arm

but i have noticed that the top roller is slightly out of line with all other pulleys and bottom roller but the belt itself is not over hanging the edges of the roller is there any instances of the carrier arm being a cause for concern

Any advice or ideas gratefully recieved as i dont want to lose the car as everything else is spot on just keeps going through rollers/belts at the rate of 1 every 30 miles and thats getting both expensive and annoying

Colin