Bad Design !

[ACTIVE8]

Well having seen the feature on Fifth Gear about a typical maintenance issue, I nearly fell off my seat laughing at why a manufacturer would design something to be more difficult !

So, is this typical of the new "modern" Euro encap design ?

The Golf they used in the test against the Megane seems to prove to contary.

So if you have the Xenon bulbs it requires even more stripping down, & apparently the bumper has to come off etc. LOL

Designers they seem to be going backwards I.E making things more difficult.

Have they been instructed to do this, to ensure main stealers get more work in, and therefore more profits ?

Here's the link

http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp ... Lightbulbs

[andmcit]

In time honored Haynes styley:

to remove Meagne front headlight bulb, jack and support vehicle securely
on axle stands and remove the rear bumper (see section 12), wheels
(see section 1A) and seats (see section 12) but not until you look at section
3 where scary grainy and confusing pictures of engine innards are shown
and there is a special one off 7 spanners icon...

Plus you'll need a laptop to log into the car's systems and disengage the
primary safety systems but first you need the password!

Progress? I feel ABS and airbags where a step too far in car development.

Andrew

[ACTIVE8]

Check out the way thatthe breakdown guy works on it.

On the clip he is seen going in the boot to get out the jack, and then the car is supported by it, and he is then inside the wheel arch to do the job as Renault intended. So the car is supported by the "basic and poor quality" jack which you should not be using to support the car and get underneath it !

It's only designed to lift the car for wheel changes!!

DO NOT GET UNDER A CAR SUPPORTED IN SUCH A WAY AS IT IS DANGEROUS!!!!

[uncle buck]

Don't know how they are getting away with this as in parts of Europe you have to carry spare bulbs by law....how could you possibly be expected to change a bulb at the side of the road if the bumper has to be removed from the car to gain access to replace the bulb!

[Ross_K]

What about the most expensive quote he got from a Renault dealer?

£200 and something + VAT!!

Still I suppose times are tough and Renault have to make money where they can...

[ACTIVE8]

Well if this is how they complicate a simple job, then what other surprises are in store from the manufacturers.

AH !!

Let's guess you need to be a Mensa member to......

Fill a washer bottle as they will hide the filler and suggest the owner visits a main stealer for it to be topped up, refilled or adding washer solvent !

Aim the washer jets so that they spray the screen correctly !

Pump up the tyres !

Well we never expected them to do this heath robinson chumny warner thing with the light bulbs did we, so anything absolutely anything could be made complicated, and I am sure they will try!

Now when a car is many years old, and requires a few light bulbs changing for the MOT, then your average motorist won't be able to afford to have them done, and would not have a clue about the insane, obtuse and complicated way to do it.

So, end result is that it could make the motorist decide the car is beyond economic repair, and ensures the motorist scraps it, or gives it away for a song to get rid of it !

Well done manufacturers, more designed in obsolence !

Oh, also if it complicates this task then what's the bill for changing a headlamp ?

Does the whole front end of the car have to come apart ?

If it does, then it will be more expensive, and think about the "knock-on" effect, please excuse the pun, on insurance work and therefore premiums they are bound to go up !

Insurance companies will use any excuse to get more money off the motorist.

Like the main stealers, and manufacturers !

[jeremy]

All quite daft - like some of you I thought that it was a requirement of the cucumber straightening officials of the EEC that bulbs could be replaced without tools.

However doesn't this mean that there will be a good supply of relatively new cheap cars with minor faults - when those with no practical skills get fed up with them and decide as the bulbs are failing its time they got a new car.

After all many won't touch a hydraulic Citroen - and as members of this board we know that the suspension is possible to repair and does not require expensive tools

[reblack68]

I don't believe a car should get type approval if you need a tool to replace any of the essential bulbs.

I'm a bit concerned about the design of lighting in general. The current trend for putting indicators inside headlights for example. What drugs would you have to take to make that seem acceptable? Even with the headlight off they are difficult to see from most angles. These LED rear indicators on VWs are as bad, it's very difficult to tell they are indicating if the brake lights are on.

Don't get me started on Xenons

[Gregg1100]

Hi,
Like Andrew, I feel there is far too much uneccessary junk being put on cars, ABS, and airbags. What was wrong with the old 7" sealed beam headlight units---always gave a better focused light than any of the oblong stuff.
Abs---more trouble than it's worth. In my last but one job, we had brand new Mercedes Actros tri axle units, with brand new tri axle trailers, running at 44 ton. The abs lights were always coming on for sensor trouble ( soon as it rained )and incompatibility with parts.
Airbags- what is all that about.? If the cars today were made of actual metal and not tin foil, perhaps they wouldn't need them.
Rant over .
You have probably worked out I am not keen on this type of stuff. Bring back the Morry 1000, I say. No abs, airbags, leccky windows, and if you were really lucky, no heater matrix buried 3ft. into the cars interior. Some of them didn't even have a heater,
Greg

[Xaccers]

I don't believe a car should get type approval if you need a tool to replace any of the essential bulbs.

I'm a bit concerned about the design of lighting in general. The current trend for putting indicators inside headlights for example. What drugs would you have to take to make that seem acceptable? Even with the headlight off they are difficult to see from most angles. These LED rear indicators on VWs are as bad, it's very difficult to tell they are indicating if the brake lights are on.

Don't get me started on Xenons

Oh god don't get me started on those blooming indicators!
They're practically invisible, then you get the ones on the wing mirrors, so you dont see them until the nose of the car is stuck well out.
One of the manufacturers is advertising a "blind spot" indicator, an amber light the flashes on the inside of the mirror to warn you that something is in your blind spot.
How many times have you been on the motorway with some git sat in your blind spot? How annoying and distracting would that constant flashing light be in the corner of your eye?
And who thought it would be better to have front fog lights on before rears??? I still can't think of a legitimate reason for that.
Although maybe it's so people don't use their headlights incase the bulbs blow...

[Ross_K]

And who thought it would be better to have front fog lights on before rears??? I still can't think of a legitimate reason for that.
Although maybe it's so people don't use their headlights incase the bulbs blow...

Some muppets think they look cool driving around with just the front fogs on.

I personally think they should be beaten severely about the head with a wheel brace...

[Clogzz]

in parts of Europe you have to carry spare bulbs by law

what other surprises are in store from the manufacturers.

A good surprise with the Xantia.
The inner rear sidelight, item 3, has a 21/5W bulb, with the 5W only being used.
So, when the 21W brake bulb fails, it can be swapped for the sidelight bulb.

[MikeT]

Interesting thread and I think there's a lot of truth in that the designers have lost the plot.

I've just come back from the shops and noticed the Pug 206HDi in front of me had a single, centrally-fitted red (fog?) light, recessed into the rear bumper. (Think F1 cars, it's about the same height/position).

That's fine until, like this car has, a tow bar is fitted which obscures all but the side perimeters of the lens. The insurers will have a field day on that one, methinks.

[myglaren]

IIRC the New Beetle also has to have half the front end dismantled to change a headlamp bulb.

[andmcit]

I personally think they should be beaten severely about the head with a wheel brace...

Me first, me first!! Form an orderly que here.

I have an Xm wheelbrace, that'd do the trick - robust enough to penetrate
their solid thick skulls too!

Andrew