Xantia 1.9td hard to start in the morning, Help!

jereme · Unread post by **jereme** » 20 Aug 2008, 08:53

I have a 1.9td 1997 xantia estate which used to start reliably always. Over the last couple of months it has been hard to start in the mornings although once started it is great for the rest of the day and drives great.
Last year i had the engine rebuilt after bending a con rod when water got in the air intake during a flood. After the work car still drove and STARTED great.
Since this problem developed i have changed the glow plugs and checked they are charging, changed the air and fuel filters, changed the battery.
If i squeeze the primer pump till it goes hard I see fuel travel through the clear pipe to the fuel filter housing and then the car starts fine. (I also once had this problem in a bx diesel, why dont they put the primer in the cocpit?) So i assume the problem is air being sucked into the fuel line somewhere but I can not see anything obvious? How would I locate an air leak like that, if thats what it is?
Also if need be will I be able to continue primming the fuel line every morning if I can't solve the cause or is this likely to get worse until that doesn't help either and the car doesn't start at all.

Any advice would be gratefully accepted.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 20 Aug 2008, 09:14

Welcome to the forum jereme

Yours is a very common problem and will almost certainly be the leakoff pipes perished and letting in air. These are the little black pipes daisy-chained between each injector and the pump return line.

Factors do a little pipe kit, including the little blanking plug for the last injector, for little money. Some branches of Halfrauds also stock them.

If replacing these do not give complete satsifaction, you have air getting in the fuel line somewhere else. As the fuel system is under suction, it'll never leak diesel but any small cracks will allow the admission of air. The primer bulb itself and the fuel filter housing are prime suspects.

jereme · Unread post by **jereme** » 20 Aug 2008, 09:20

Thanks for your help i will try this today, is it a difficult job? Haynes don't seem to mention it.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 20 Aug 2008, 09:23

Dead simple. Pull the old pipes off and pop new ones on

Access is a bit fiddly on one or two injectors but apart from that, straightforward.

jereme wrote:Haynes don't seem to mention it.

Haynes don't mention a lot of things, hence why it's known as the BoL (Book of Lies) areound these parts

pete_wood_uk · Unread post by **pete_wood_uk** » 20 Aug 2008, 10:01

When this happened again on my old TD (the leak-off pipes had caused it once, then it happened again...) I finally noticed that when I gave the bulb a good squeeze, there was a faint bit of bubbly diesel coming out where the feed pipe goes onto the fuel filter (because I was putting it under pressure with the bulb). So, if fuel comes out under pressure, then air'll go in under suction. Nipped that up, ran fine again...

Cheers
Pete

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 20 Aug 2008, 10:22

The leakoff pipes will only affect starting if you have a Bosch pump - the Roto-Diesel and derivatives only leak and smell when the leakoff pipes fail.

Most Xantias do seem to have Bosch pumps.

jereme · Unread post by **jereme** » 20 Aug 2008, 11:33

I have changed the leak off hoses and blanking plug, at least it was easier to get to than the glow plugs.
Have to wait till tomorrow morning to see if that has cured the problem.

While doing it I noticed that the head gasket is weeping oil very slightly especially if I touch it. The coolant is all ok and correct colour and car is not over heating. Anyone have any advice to offer. Not sure I want to spend out to have a garage replace the gasket if that is really nessaccary?
Would rather put money if I had it (which i don't) towards a picasso.

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 20 Aug 2008, 12:47

Are you sure about the head gasket? - Where in relation to the engine is the leak?

The rocker cover and the vent hoses can leak and deposit oil on the engine - and due to its transverse mounting - gets blown away and round the sides and back by the airflow.

jereme · Unread post by **jereme** » 20 Aug 2008, 13:06

Hi, the oil is coming from the thick rubber gasket at the top of the engine as you look at it above and behind the leakoff hoses i replaced.
If if prod the gasket with my finger oil seeps through between the metal and the rubber slightly.

pete_wood_uk · Unread post by **pete_wood_uk** » 20 Aug 2008, 13:12

That's the rocker cover, not the head gasket. Much easier job

jereme · Unread post by **jereme** » 20 Aug 2008, 13:17

sounds reassuring. Why would it start leaking and what can i do to sort it or can i just leave it?
What about these oil leak additives you pour in the oil, would that work or cause more damage?
Very grateful for your help
Jereme

pete_wood_uk · Unread post by **pete_wood_uk** » 20 Aug 2008, 13:45

There's no pressure in there, so unless it's doing a torrey canyon then personally I'd leave it; others may differ, I don't think it's a big job at all - John's recent overhaul thread didn't even bother mentioning rocker cover gasket replacement....

Cheers
Pete

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 20 Aug 2008, 14:06

me ?

I did change mine, as it was in the head set... but didn't mention it.. in my post or blog :O

changing it with the engine on the floor was a 1 min job....

i had changed it a few months ago anyway, in-situ, as I suspected a leak..

easy job, its only held on by 3 x 6mm bolts... but the inlet tract gets slightly in the way as do a few other easily removed pipes...

rubber gasket is only about a fiver.

John

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 20 Aug 2008, 14:52

John,

off topic...

Congratulations on passing the 1,000 posts mark

Back on topic, often when disturbing the rocker cover the breather hose between the rocker cover and the oil pot often splits. Replacements are readily available from your local stealer for under a fiver.

Part No. 1180 86 OIL VAPOUR HOSE

Worth replacing at the same time as the rocker cover gasket..

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 20 Aug 2008, 16:52

Will be buying one tomorrow (along with the caliper refurb kit if I can get it, and my rear brake pads)