HDi Timing Belt change

[Toby_HDi]

It's that time

Hoping to be doing this within the next month. Is there anything I should know?

I have finally got my hands on a BoL that covers the HDi engine and it looks fairly complex but I would like to give it a go myself. My understanding is that the idler pulley and tensioner is included in the kit that GSF sell, is this correct? Will be changing the waterpump too while I'm there.

With regards to special tools - any tips on what can be used instead to save having to buy them? Is the electronic tensioning tool an absolute necessity? The BoL says you can tension it without but it'll need checking with the tool at the earliest opportunity.

Basically am just looking for pointers and maybe if there is a better process for doing it than the BoL states.

Thanks

[CitroJim]

Although I've not done an HDi Toby, I get the impression the job is very similar to the 1.9TD except for the cambelt tensioner which works on the same principle as the eccentric auxillary belt tensioner.

These were used extensively on other XU and TU engines and never has the need been shown to use a special tool. The old rule of thumb is that if you can just easily turn the belt through 90 degrees along its longest run using finger and thumb, the tension is right. This works on a petrol engine but on a diesel, you may struggle to find a long enough run. Common sense will do just fine. Overtensioning is the biggest risk. Remember the engine will expand as it warms and tighten the belt. Set it so it has a bit of give in the longest run, enough to be able to turn it say, three quarters between finger and thumb. You don't want it so loose that it's floppy and can be easily pulled off the sprockets but equaly, not too tight either. I'm taking the three quarters turn tension from a 1.9TD belt across the top run from cam sprocket to injection pump sprocket - that's the longest run.

The acid test is to listen to it when the engines is running. If it makes a horrible whining noise it's too tight.

Otherwise, as per 1.9TD taking note to carefully lock the crankshaft and camshaft. They say the injection pump does not need timing but to be on the safe side, I would.

It would be false economy not to replace the water pump and coolant whilst you are doing the work. In fact it would be muppetry. Likewise the tensioner.

Also have a look at the condition of the crank pulley and check the rubber between the inner and outer is not breaking up.

have fun with this Toby and do report back!

[Toby_HDi]

Thanks Jim, just a few more of questions

Could you give me a GSF part number for the HDi auxilary belt as I'll do that at the same time, from what I understand it has to come off anyway. Does the tensioner and pulley come in the kit GSF do or is it separate?

What is suitable to lock the crankshaft and camshaft. BoL says to lock the flywheel too, is this necessary? Again if so, with what?

How does one time the injection pump?

Is it a good idea to unbolt the engine from some of its mounts and use a jack to raise/lower for access? BoL says use a block of wood and jack on the sump, I don't like that idea though is it safe to do so without going through the sump?

Thanks

[Xaccers]

There are locking holes through the cam and pump sprockets into the engine to keep them in time.
Remove the starter motor (you can do it with the starter motor still in place but it's easier to move it) and you'll see a 6mm hole behind it going through the flange before the flywheel.
I use an allen key, and Jim has a nifty copper rod (which makes it easier when not removing the starter motor), which fits through the hole and into the flywheel hole when it's "in time"
Do not use this hole to lock the fly wheel to remove the crank bolt! Put the car in 5th gear to do that with no timing bolts in place.
Once the bolt is loose, you should be able to use it to turn the engine over so that it's in time, without it tightening too much so you can get it off.

As for the jack and sump, the cup on my jack has 4 notches cut out across it, and I rested the edge of the sump across two of the notches so it couldn't slide anywhere.
You really do need a jack in order to get to everything by moving the engine up and down.
On the 1.9TD, the driver's side mount is like an arch that sits on a "rubber ball" type thing, not sure what the hdi has, but I'd guess it's the same.
When you take it off, don't leave the bits lying on your windscreen

[marsalek]

Hi Toby,
you do not have to lock the pump as it is CommonRail! My timing belt (X Mk2 HDi) was done by a skilled chap without locking anything and without the electronic meter. He marked just the position of the crankshaft and of the camshaft against the engine body. As far as I know, the camshaft cogwheel may be losen (3xM8 bolts?) so that it can move +-1/2 of the cog - it should be loosen before tightening the cambelt and tightened again afterwards. My mechanician had not done it and the car is running well. He set the tension the same way as citrojim suggests.

Karel

[RichardW]

Rider: I've not actually done this!!

Correct, there's no need to time the pump as it's irrelevant. The cam sprocket is a vernier type, so you lock the camshaft through the sprocket, then slacken the sprocket off which allows it to rotate and even the tension out across the belt - no idea what the timing pin for the cam is though? Crank shaft is locked in the same way as the XUD - ie via a timing hole in the block behind the starter motor. You will have to remove the RH engine mount as the belt runs right through it. Block under the sump is fine - especially if it's A/C and has the heavy weight alu sump - but put it under the back edge if it's a non A/C tin one. A Pug tech on another forum indicated in the past that these belts should be set on the tight side of the 90° twist method.

[wheeler]

- no idea what the timing pin for the cam is though? Crank shaft is locked in the same way as the XUD - ie via a timing hole in the block behind the starter motor. .

To lock the cam you use a long 13mm bolt through the hole although there is no threading in the cylinder head like the XUD's. it just pushes into the hole.

[Toby_HDi]

Thanks all, any more tips, really appreciate the help. Can't seem to find a SEEM tool anywhere so will definitely be using the finger an thumb method. Not that I could justify buying a tool.

What is the recommendation with the kit and water pump? Are the GSF ones of good quality or would I be better off going to Citroen for an OE one?

Thanks

[Nutcase]

Hi,
Don't know what you have - I have
a xsara with the hdi, the engine is obviously the same, and I imagine the access is almost as bad!
The HDI defo doesn't need the pump timing. Its fairly straightforward apart from the restricted access!
I didn't use 'seem' tool, (seems to be a bit of a lottery in itself), just the 90degree twist method which many say is fine - did mine ~40k ago and no problems. I did buy a Draper flywheel locking device, but needed to fiddle with it a bit to get it to work. (although I used the socket/long bar and starter motor method to undo the crank pulley nut, worrying but effective). And definitely change the waterpump - easy and cheap. Agree its probably worth doing the accessory belt at the same time.
Also have good look at the crank pulley - any signs of red dust or excessive play between the inner & outer sections, replace it (gsf do a much cheaper one than citroen, so far so good!)
Good luck!

[Toby_HDi]

Right so I can lock the various components with allen keys perhaps? Making sure they are a snug fit obviously. Remove all locking tools to slacken the crank pulley bolt.

Any thoughts on the quality of GSF kits and water pumps? Or would I be better off going to Citroen for OE parts?

[CitroJim]

Any thoughts on the quality of GSF kits and water pumps? Or would I be better off going to Citroen for OE parts?

In my experience Toby, GSF stuff is top notch, well on a par with OE and more often than not is OE. You can rest assured with GSF in all ways.

The cost of some stuff from Citroen might scare you a little...

[Toby_HDi]

I looked at Citroen's prices the other day....we won't go there...

Just want to confirm what I'm going to need for this job

Cambelt Kit (includes tensioner and idler pulley yes?)
Aux Belt (does the tensioner need doing on this?)
Water Pump
Anti freeze and De-ionised water
Locking Tools

Another thing, are the engine mounts on the HDi servicable? Just wondering if its worth doing them while I have a couple of them off?

Anything I've missed?

Thanks

[Toby_HDi]

Can someone just confirm the above list is what I need. Don't want to forget anything and have to go and get it halfway through the job

Thanks

[MikeT]

Can someone just confirm the above list is what I need. Don't want to forget anything and have to go and get it halfway through the job

Hi Toby,

It sounds like you got it all covered - have you got the water pump gasket? If you do need anything, you could always call the FCF Parts Relay Network - I think I'm the nearest to you and happy to assist if I can.

[CitroJim]

Yep, you've pretty much got it covered Toby Good point Mike, about the water pump gasket Note that some don't have them as standard, the 2.1 being a case in point. It uses a thin metal shim that is reusable and intended to be sealed using Hylomar, Wellseal or some such simliar gunk. A gasket is available from your local stealer should you prefer. Can anyone comment on HDi waterpump gaskets?

The aux. belt tensioners don't normally need renewing at a cambelt change but if they look a bit on the tired side, it's not a huge hassle to do them at a slightly later date.

The same with mountings, you'd know if they were bad before you started due to the engine rocking and rolling like Status Quo. Again, if they look a bit squiffy, they can be done retrospectively quite easily. It's the stuff behind the belt and timing covers you want to make sure are all good as you don't really want to dive behind there again in a hurry...