Failed the MoT on rear wheel bearings - looked into it a little bit, and am starting to get a bit worried.
Okay, so you need to buy the whole hub, not just the bearing - GSF do them for 40 odd quid or something. But I'm worried about replacing them.
Haynes says that you need a puller - has anyone done this job? What sort of a puller do you need? Will a standard 3-leg puller do the job, or is there some special tool I will need?
Any help gratefully received!
MoT - Xantia rear wheel bearings
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ianrobbo
- Posts: 33
- Joined: 21 Jul 2008, 21:00
MoT - Xantia rear wheel bearings
2000 Xantia 2.0 HDi
1989 Saab c900 T16S
1989 Saab c900 T16S
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Peter.N.
- Moderating Team
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- Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
- x 1240
Its very unusual for rear wheel bearings to fail, I have never had one go on my CXs, BXs or XMs in twenty years or more - not that it helps you a lot - sorry.
I would think a three leg puller would do the job OK although it looks from the picture as though you may be able to put a couple of long bolts through the the wheel stud holes, pressing against the hup mounting, with nuts behind the flange, tighten them so as to push the flange away from the mounting.
I would think a three leg puller would do the job OK although it looks from the picture as though you may be able to put a couple of long bolts through the the wheel stud holes, pressing against the hup mounting, with nuts behind the flange, tighten them so as to push the flange away from the mounting.
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CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
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- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- x 8168
That's unusual 
You're sure it's the wheel bearings and not the trailing arm bearings?
Anyway, no personal experience but I'd expect these bearings to be very tight on the stub axle and also you'll find the hub nut rather tight at 280 ft lbs!
I'd be inclined to make up a bespoke puller comprising a meaty bar that bolts to a couple of wheel bolt holes with a big bolt through the centre of the bar to draw the hub off. Then I reckon a biggish flat bearing puller will be needed to draw off the inner race that is left behind. You'll need a mandrel to seat the new inner race. I don't reckon a normal two or three legged puller will be up to the job
All in all, a job that will take a bit of making special tools by the looks of it and if you are not in a position to make tools, perhaps one for a trusted garage although with suitable pullers and a big breaker bar, the job looks straightforward enough otherwise.
One thing to beware of in this job is the ABS sensors. You will be working in close proximity of them and they're both delicate, difficult to replace and expensive
Another thing to check is that the GSF kit is the full works and includes a new hub nut, washer and a new dust cap as well as the hub/bearings. The Citroen part number for the kit is 3748 29 and that does includes a new hub, bearings, nut, washer and dust cap.
If the MOT man has failed it on trailing arm bearings, they're much easier
Still take care around those ABS sensors though.
You're sure it's the wheel bearings and not the trailing arm bearings?
Anyway, no personal experience but I'd expect these bearings to be very tight on the stub axle and also you'll find the hub nut rather tight at 280 ft lbs!
I'd be inclined to make up a bespoke puller comprising a meaty bar that bolts to a couple of wheel bolt holes with a big bolt through the centre of the bar to draw the hub off. Then I reckon a biggish flat bearing puller will be needed to draw off the inner race that is left behind. You'll need a mandrel to seat the new inner race. I don't reckon a normal two or three legged puller will be up to the job
All in all, a job that will take a bit of making special tools by the looks of it and if you are not in a position to make tools, perhaps one for a trusted garage although with suitable pullers and a big breaker bar, the job looks straightforward enough otherwise.
One thing to beware of in this job is the ABS sensors. You will be working in close proximity of them and they're both delicate, difficult to replace and expensive
Another thing to check is that the GSF kit is the full works and includes a new hub nut, washer and a new dust cap as well as the hub/bearings. The Citroen part number for the kit is 3748 29 and that does includes a new hub, bearings, nut, washer and dust cap.
If the MOT man has failed it on trailing arm bearings, they're much easier
Still take care around those ABS sensors though.Jim
A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
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CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
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- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- x 8168
yet again we were posting at the same time 
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ianrobbo
- Posts: 33
- Joined: 21 Jul 2008, 21:00
Thanks for the replies.
The MoT man definitely snagged the rear wheel bearings - and it makes sense to me, as there is a definite speed related hum.
I changed the front wheel bearings on my BX years ago, and I remember that being a pain in the backside, but that was replacing the bearings in the hub, so I was kind of hoping changing the hub itself would be a simpler option!
My first inclination was to let the garage do it, but he was talking £90 per side for parts, plus 2 hours labour per side, and it was heading towards £400. The car only cost £600! No, if I'm to get it through the MoT, it'll be another diy job. Haven't finished the headgasket change on my Saab yet!
The MoT man definitely snagged the rear wheel bearings - and it makes sense to me, as there is a definite speed related hum.
I changed the front wheel bearings on my BX years ago, and I remember that being a pain in the backside, but that was replacing the bearings in the hub, so I was kind of hoping changing the hub itself would be a simpler option!
My first inclination was to let the garage do it, but he was talking £90 per side for parts, plus 2 hours labour per side, and it was heading towards £400. The car only cost £600! No, if I'm to get it through the MoT, it'll be another diy job. Haven't finished the headgasket change on my Saab yet!
2000 Xantia 2.0 HDi
1989 Saab c900 T16S
1989 Saab c900 T16S
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citronut
- Posts: 10937
- Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
- x 94
as others have said it is as rare as rocking horse s**t for these bearings to fail, let aloan have any play in them, unless some one has been there and not tightened the hub nuts corectly
i think a medium to large three leged puller should be fine for the hole job, as the centre of the stub axle is solid, unless you have a propper hub puller, then if it leaves the inner inner race behind you can with care grind a flat almost down to the stub
( take extreem care not to damage the stub axle) then tap it with a sharp coal chizle, and it will split and then slid off the stub, on re/fitting the new hub you could just use a short length of tube the right diamiter to sit against the outer inner race, and gently drift it on to the stub till you can get the hub nut to find a good couple of threads, then you can wind it the rest of the way home
regards malcolm
i think a medium to large three leged puller should be fine for the hole job, as the centre of the stub axle is solid, unless you have a propper hub puller, then if it leaves the inner inner race behind you can with care grind a flat almost down to the stub
( take extreem care not to damage the stub axle) then tap it with a sharp coal chizle, and it will split and then slid off the stub, on re/fitting the new hub you could just use a short length of tube the right diamiter to sit against the outer inner race, and gently drift it on to the stub till you can get the hub nut to find a good couple of threads, then you can wind it the rest of the way home
regards malcolm
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ianrobbo
- Posts: 33
- Joined: 21 Jul 2008, 21:00
Malcolm,
Some good practical advice there, and pretty much as I'd concluded myself, although I like your earlier suggestion of a bar across the end of the stub axle, then some threaded rod and nuts through the wheel bolt holes to draw it off.
I'm not sure that the inner race will be left on the stub axle - but if it is, grinding is definitely the way to go.
I'll get the wheels off this evening after work and have a good look at it. I apreciate what you're saying about this being a rare failure, but there's not much I can do about it - the failure sheet says that NSR bearing is rough, and the OSR bearing has excessive play. Maybe someone's had the stub axle off in the past, and put the original back on?
Ian
Some good practical advice there, and pretty much as I'd concluded myself, although I like your earlier suggestion of a bar across the end of the stub axle, then some threaded rod and nuts through the wheel bolt holes to draw it off.
I'm not sure that the inner race will be left on the stub axle - but if it is, grinding is definitely the way to go.
I'll get the wheels off this evening after work and have a good look at it. I apreciate what you're saying about this being a rare failure, but there's not much I can do about it - the failure sheet says that NSR bearing is rough, and the OSR bearing has excessive play. Maybe someone's had the stub axle off in the past, and put the original back on?
Ian
2000 Xantia 2.0 HDi
1989 Saab c900 T16S
1989 Saab c900 T16S
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KP
- Posts: 3980
- Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 12:11
- x 27
Ill bet if your rear wheel bearings are shot that you dont have the dust shield fitted to your trailing arm that protects them from abuse.
I've had one of mine go twice due to this
They dont seem to be easy to find at scrappers near me as most of them strip the wheels off them and slam them to the floor bending the thing to burgery!
I've had one of mine go twice due to this
They dont seem to be easy to find at scrappers near me as most of them strip the wheels off them and slam them to the floor bending the thing to burgery!
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ianrobbo
- Posts: 33
- Joined: 21 Jul 2008, 21:00
Just looked at the price of hub pullers, and seeing as how the bearings are going to cost best part of £100 (& that's with a discount from GSF!) I may as well buy a proper one - make the job a bit easier.
I'll take photos and do a write up for those to follow unfortunate enough to have the same snag
May as well change the back brake pads while I'm at it.
I'll take photos and do a write up for those to follow unfortunate enough to have the same snag
May as well change the back brake pads while I'm at it.
2000 Xantia 2.0 HDi
1989 Saab c900 T16S
1989 Saab c900 T16S
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jgra1
- (Donor 2021)
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Johnno
- (Donor 2022)
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- x 1
Hi Ian
I've quickly read this thread so forgive me if I'm repeating but, as someone who recently changed a Xantia Estate rear bearing I can offer the information that the outer race and hub will come off easily enough with a standard puller. Unfortunately, what remains is the inner race, hard up against the shoulder of the stub axle. This is so close to the shoulder that getting a puller behind it is next to impossible. There may be a specialist tool, but doubtless it would cost a fortune. I tried (a great deal of) heat, to no avail. An angle grinder did the trick, cutting a diagonal slot through the race which allowed me to break the remaining section with a cold chisel. This allows the tension to release and then the race can be drifted off. Remember to smooth off any mark on the stub axle.
Also note that the dust shield sits behind the race and not, as I discovered, over the outer rim. If you try and pull it off, it comes away and looks as though it has an inner lip - it doesn't, it's just that it rusts at the join between axle shoulder and inner race.
Finally, a warning: take the old hub to GSF (if you're going there) and ensure you get the right item - they are not all equal!
The replacement item goes on easily enough, but I suggest some Loctite on the main bearing nut, as the new hub didn't offer much in the way of "staking" to lock the nut.
Hope this helps.
I've quickly read this thread so forgive me if I'm repeating but, as someone who recently changed a Xantia Estate rear bearing I can offer the information that the outer race and hub will come off easily enough with a standard puller. Unfortunately, what remains is the inner race, hard up against the shoulder of the stub axle. This is so close to the shoulder that getting a puller behind it is next to impossible. There may be a specialist tool, but doubtless it would cost a fortune. I tried (a great deal of) heat, to no avail. An angle grinder did the trick, cutting a diagonal slot through the race which allowed me to break the remaining section with a cold chisel. This allows the tension to release and then the race can be drifted off. Remember to smooth off any mark on the stub axle.
Also note that the dust shield sits behind the race and not, as I discovered, over the outer rim. If you try and pull it off, it comes away and looks as though it has an inner lip - it doesn't, it's just that it rusts at the join between axle shoulder and inner race.
Finally, a warning: take the old hub to GSF (if you're going there) and ensure you get the right item - they are not all equal!
The replacement item goes on easily enough, but I suggest some Loctite on the main bearing nut, as the new hub didn't offer much in the way of "staking" to lock the nut.
Hope this helps.
John
'59 C5 2.2 173 VTX+ saloon, Jaguar 3.8 MkII 1961
RIP - '07 C5 2.2 173 VTX+ Estate
'59 C5 2.2 173 VTX+ saloon, Jaguar 3.8 MkII 1961
RIP - '07 C5 2.2 173 VTX+ Estate
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citronut
- Posts: 10937
- Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
- x 94
hi Ianianrobbo wrote:Malcolm,
Some good practical advice there, and pretty much as I'd concluded myself, although I like your earlier suggestion of a bar across the end of the stub axle, then some threaded rod and nuts through the wheel bolt holes to draw it off.
I'm not sure that the inner race will be left on the stub axle - but if it is, grinding is definitely the way to go.
I'll get the wheels off this evening after work and have a good look at it. I apreciate what you're saying about this being a rare failure, but there's not much I can do about it - the failure sheet says that NSR bearing is rough, and the OSR bearing has excessive play. Maybe someone's had the stub axle off in the past, and put the original back on?
Ian
it twas citrojims sudgestion of the bar twas not i, but to add to it you dont need the threaded hole in the centre, all you need is a selection of spacers to place one or so at a time between the stub axle and the bar, whilst windding the bolts into the wheel nut threads, i use a similar method the extract a stuck cranck shaft pully
regards malcolm
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ianrobbo
- Posts: 33
- Joined: 21 Jul 2008, 21:00
Thanks for all the input guys, the job is now done. Hardest bit was grinding the inboard bearing inner race off the stub axle - not hard, just time consuming, plus you need to be careful not to damage anything.
Will do a full write up with pictures later in a new thread.
Ian
Will do a full write up with pictures later in a new thread.
Ian
2000 Xantia 2.0 HDi
1989 Saab c900 T16S
1989 Saab c900 T16S