xantia 1.9l td, problem with starting and smoking

wonderd · Unread post by **wonderd** » 28 Jul 2008, 20:47

When the engine is warm it won't start for about 10 seconds and when it does start there is a big cloud of smoke, it does not happen when the car is cold.

Whan i was looking around i found 2 vacum solenoids (?) close together which 1 is disconnected, plus i found another device which i think is supposed to be connected to one of the solenoids.

The first pic is the 2 solenoids, the right side one is disconnected,

http://www.aqua.org.il/modules.php?name ... ic_id=8470

The second and third show the UFO device behined the engine which has a hose coming all the way to the right side solenoid and is disconnected.

http://www.aqua.org.il/modules.php?name ... ic_id=8472
http://www.aqua.org.il/modules.php?name ... ic_id=8471

Unread post by **admiral51** » 29 Jul 2008, 00:28

Hi
not sure if this will help a great deal but..........................
my 1.9d will start on first turn of starter whereas my 1.9td will take at least 3-5 turns when hot unless i follow the following
1.turn ignition on and put in keypad code
2.wait for preheat light to go out
3.turn ignition off and repaet steps 1+2
4.when pre heat light goes out count to 4 and start and it fires up with 2 turns of cranking whether hot or cold

Citrojim did explain to me that the difference between the 1.9d and 1.9td starting is due to the compression ratio but im sure he will elaborate if ive got things wildly wrong
i beleive the cloud of smoke will be unburnt fuel due to the cranking of the engine and not firing so nothing untowards there
Colin

wonderd · Unread post by **wonderd** » 29 Jul 2008, 04:37

Before i changed he engine that problem wasn't there.
I know the cloud of smoke is unburned fuel, but why does it happen if i have enough fuel in there?

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 29 Jul 2008, 08:29

if you have been crancking without it fireing up you almost certainly will have unburnt fule in the combustion chambers
regards malcolm

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 29 Jul 2008, 09:51

I wonder if your replacement engine has had a head gasket recently? that will reduce the compression and cause lazy starting until it has coked up again which usually takes 2 - 5k miles.

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 29 Jul 2008, 10:53

Have you checked the glowplugs are individually 100% working? Have you tried priming the fuel before cranking?

The two solenoids you mention are to control the cold start device (flying saucer as you call it which leads onto the back of the fuel pump) and the EGR valve (which is an insult to the internal combustion engine IMO).

It is common for both these solenoids to fail and in the case of the EGR system, that's a good thing IMO. Although the EGR valve sticking open is not good and I don't know how you can test for this without dismantling it.

The cold start device is operative by default and causes the engine to idle about 1100rpm. As the engine warms, the solenoid is operated and brings the idle down to normal so it should be obvious if yours is working or not.

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 29 Jul 2008, 12:31

I'm sure I read several times on here there being a known cause for the engines not to start easily when hot.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 29 Jul 2008, 13:00

Xac wrote:I'm sure I read several times on here there being a known cause for the engines not to start easily when hot.

Absolutely correct Xac. All diesels I've had fitted with the Bosch

pump exhibited the trait whereas those fitted with the Lucas pump do not

My theory centres around the low compression ratio (lower still if the HG has been done as pointed out by Peter.N.) which is not conducive to good starting, hence need for glowplugs every time on a TD and that hot diesel in the pump being thinner than cold diesel does not pump with such high pressure. Also, the intake air will be hot from a heat soaked turbo and intercooler and will be less dense and contain less oxygen. All will have an effect.

As I say, just a theory.

wonderd · Unread post by **wonderd** » 29 Jul 2008, 13:42

What if i replace the HG with a thinner one?

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 29 Jul 2008, 13:47

wonderd wrote:What if i replace the HG with a thinner one?

That's a bit extreme!

I'd be temmped to live with it provided everythjing else is ok. a thicker HG will aid reliability marginally and as Peter.N. says, once it's coked up a bit, the situation will improve.

Unread post by **RichardW** » 29 Jul 2008, 15:37

The 1.9TD is never as good a starter as the 1.7 was for some reason. My BX TD (Bosch pump, Jim....

) would start without plugs if it had been run in the last 2 hours - whereas all 4 of my 1.9TDs have needed plugs to start even if they've been stopped more than a couple of minutes.

wonderd · Unread post by **wonderd** » 29 Jul 2008, 16:21

before i changed the engine, there was never a problem starting it.

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 29 Jul 2008, 17:52

When were the glow plugs changed last?

wonderd · Unread post by **wonderd** » 30 Jul 2008, 06:56

They were checked when i replaced the engine 1 month ago.
What does it matter though? the engine starts fine when the car is cold.

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 30 Jul 2008, 07:40

Does the engine crank fast when hot? What can happen is that the compression pressure rises and the engine actually cranks slower when hot than cold - and doesn't start as well.

Worth trying with the lights on to see what happens - it could be due to too small a battery, tired battery, poor earth or battery connection or starter main feed - or even starter.