Xantia Activa lack of performance

Activamadness · Post by **Activamadness** » 12 Jun 2008, 08:24

Hi,
My activa, although now not getting hot, (thanks DickieG!) does not go as well as I think it should.

It will pull well, when accelerating hard in one gear, but when you change up, it seems to lose its urge, almost as if the turbo is not working.
It also misfires slightly under load.
It has been on the diagnostic machine, and had all of its fault codes erased.
I have checked for air leaks, changed the plugs, airfilter is clear, I wonder if anyone else has had similar problems, or could point me in the right direction?
Thanks
Jon

Post by **CitroJim** » 12 Jun 2008, 09:19

Hi Jon,

An Activa should have quite a Jekyll and Hyde character

It'll pootle around gently and then, if you give it beans, it should pull very strongly through the gears with no drop between especially if you hang it out to near the red line through the gears and go like a scalded cat

I'd suspect a small boost leak somewhere or a problem with the boost actuator given that all ECU faults are clear and all looks normal. When Richard had yours on the Lexia did he do an actuator test on your boost controller to listen to it clicking? Did he do the same test on the charcoal canister purge valve?

I'd start by checking all the inlet trunking between the airbox and inlet manifold, looking for leaks, not forgetting the intercooler. test the goodness of the charcoal canister purge valve by disconnecting it and blanking off the pipe from the throttle body and taking it for a spin. Don't forget a small exhaust leak at the manifold or downpipe joint will kill boost. Check the boost controller valve pipes are all good and in the right places on the valve.

A good investment will be a boost gauge to ensure you are gtting full boost. You need one that will read up to a bar. Those sold to the barryboys are not really good enough to accurately read the relatively low levels of boost on the Activa.

Finally, give it a treat of a tankful of Super Unleaded (Shell or BP) and a dose of injector cleaner.

Quackers · Post by **Quackers** » 12 Jun 2008, 18:43

What gears we talking about?

I've had 2 Activa's and both have performed the same way.

1st Very short and jerky gear to use
2nd Pulls really well, floor it at 2000rpm and it feels great
3rd not exciting at all, just does not pull the same as 2nd
4th same as 2nd gear, pulls like mad
5th feels like 3rd, not as pully as 2nd and 4th.

Also called into the garage i recommended to you in a post you made before about somewhere near you to deal with the Activa, well they have a guy there now who has worked at many Citroen dealers and worked on a lot of Activa's

so if you are really pulling your hair out with this car, he should get it working great for £££ of course

Activamadness · Post by **Activamadness** » 13 Jun 2008, 09:31

Hi Jim
Thanks for the reply, I think Richard did test the boost actuator, all though I am not 100% sure!
However, driving the car to work this morning, it felt like it had suddenly gained 50 bhp, pulling like a train!
Then, under hard acceleration, it suddenly lost power, then momentarily gained it again, before losing it!
My money is on the boost actuator not working properly, as I cant see any airleaks anywhere.
Are these actuators fiendishly expensive and main dealer only stock?
Regards
Jonathan

XantiaMan · Post by **XantiaMan** » 13 Jun 2008, 10:53

No guess work can be made on the actuator until you have a boost gauge, if the Activa runs a boost modulator valve (to reduce boost in lower gears and flatten out the torque that could be faulty, or a leak somewhere.

Post by **myglaren** » 13 Jun 2008, 12:02

I'm a bit suspicious that my turbo is a bit 'weak' and gfollowing the advice above thought I might get a boost guage.
They do appear to be a bit on the pricey side though.

XantiaMan · Post by **XantiaMan** » 13 Jun 2008, 14:33

myglaren wrote:I'm a bit suspicious that my turbo is a bit 'weak' and gfollowing the advice above thought I might get a boost guage.
They do appear to be a bit on the pricey side though.

You can get a cheapy TIM gauge for £30 quid or less that will do the job, they tend to over-read though.

Post by **myglaren** » 13 Jun 2008, 17:25

Thanks XantiaMan583, that souds more reasonable but how much use is it if it is innacurate?

XantiaMan · Post by **XantiaMan** » 13 Jun 2008, 18:58

myglaren wrote:Thanks XantiaMan583, that souds more reasonable but how much use is it if it is innacurate?

Better thank guessing if you have 3 psi or 13psi, i used one for years on my Maestro Turbo and it lets you know when the car is boosting which is more important than the exact figure you end up with. I have an Autometer in my car now, which reads very accurate, the TIM over-reads by about 1psi and is only available in 1.5 bar to 2 bar, i prefered to have a gauge that read in psi.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 13 Jun 2008, 21:42

As a matter of interest how do you know that the TIM gauge is wrong and the Autometer is correct?

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 13 Jun 2008, 22:58

Activamadness wrote:It will pull well, when accelerating hard in one gear, but when you change up, it seems to lose its urge, almost as if the turbo is not working.
It also misfires slightly under load.

Hi John,
Activa's do seem to suffer from a slight misfire at times, mine improved after fitting a new Lambda sensor.

Activamadness wrote:However, driving the car to work this morning, it felt like it had suddenly gained 50 bhp, pulling like a train!
Then, under hard acceleration, it suddenly lost power, then momentarily gained it again, before losing it!
My money is on the boost actuator not working properly, as I cant see any airleaks anywhere.

Take a look at the circular black plastic 'thingy' (can't think of its name

) which sits on top of the rocker cover with breather pipes running through it. Citroën issued an Info Rapid to drill a small hole on the inside to improve breathing http://membres.lycos.fr/ci6web/auto/activa/note_60.jpg http://membres.lycos.fr/ci6web/auto/act ... 368180.jpg

This was another Info Rapid http://membres.lycos.fr/ci6web/auto/activa/note_72.jpg

In addition I'd remove each of the three vacuum pipes running to the boost controller and blow them through as I'd bet that somewhere you have a partial blockage on a vacuum pipe due to a build up of sludge. Do you recall the tale of the 2.0 auto that wouldn't idle correctly I mentioned to you?

citrojim wrote:When Richard had yours on the Lexia did he do an actuator test on your boost controller to listen to it clicking? Did he do the same test on the charcoal canister purge valve?

Yes I did and they clicked

citrojim wrote:Finally, give it a treat of a tankful of Super Unleaded (Shell or BP) and a dose of injector cleaner.

That does work a treat.

XantiaMan · Post by **XantiaMan** » 14 Jun 2008, 08:38

jeremy wrote:As a matter of interest how do you know that the TIM gauge is wrong and the Autometer is correct?

I used to work at a rolling road which had a calibrated boost gauge and the Autometer one was far more accurate than the TiM one.

Post by **CitroJim** » 14 Jun 2008, 19:23

DickieG wrote: This was another Info Rapid http://membres.lycos.fr/ci6web/auto/activa/note_72.jpg

That's interesting Richard

Do I deduce from my limited French that it refers to a problem with the clip squashing the pipe nearly flat and thus causing the MAP sensor to mis-read? Did it also suggest it would cause the ECU to store a fault?

I've had a look at mine today and it looks OK.

The boost controllers do seem to fail occasionally but more on XMs it appears. If it clicks, Id assume it was pretty good and I'll take a guess that they fail in the same way as a hydractive electrovalve; the back-EMF diode fails and operation becomes erratic. A top idea to give the pipes a good clean Richard.

The probelm might also be caused by a sticky wastegate but I've nver heard of this being a problem on any turbo on any XU engine

XantiaMan · Post by **XantiaMan** » 14 Jun 2008, 20:09

citrojim wrote: The probelm might also be caused by a sticky wastegate but I've nver heard of this being a problem on any turbo on any XU engine

Wastegates often get blamed alot for boost problems, its often the actuator that is at fault and even then it just needs a tweak to compensate for wear. Standard actuators tend to have weak springs and therefore only open at say 6psi, it doesnt take much for age and wear to change this to virtually no boost as the wastegate cannot close properly causing slow boost build up.

KevMayer · Post by **KevMayer** » 14 Jun 2008, 21:36

Going back to Activamadness's problem, It sounds like a classic case of turbo stall as the throttle butterfly closes.

You accelerate hard and lift off to change up. As you lift, the throttle closes and trapped boost with nowhere to go can cause the turbo to stall. It then takes a while to pick up when you accelerate again.

A dump valve could help. This will keep the turbo spinning. I have one on my present Activa and it seems to keep up the momentum better than my previous Activa which didn't have one.

Cheers, Kev

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