hi all,
I have just driven home from work and there was a terrible flapping noise under the bonnet. I just managed to get home and have a look and the belt to the left of the engine which I am sure is the auxillary belt has just shredded and is hanging on by a mere thread and will surely snap if I try and get it going again. I just phoned halfords to see if they have one and they told me that it is probably a dealer part only. I have just had a new water pump and cambelt fitted along with all filter changes and new spheres.. is this going to cost me a fortune to put right. I need the car to get to work but at worst I need it by the weekend.
Can someone give me some info a.s.a.p please.....Thanks...Tim
No, not expensive. The garage that did your cambelt would be the best first port of call - they would have removed and replaced it to get to the cambelt
I think I paid £17 for the 1.9TD but there were two sizes, dependant on make of air con compressor.
PLEASE DONT START the engine again whilst the shreaded belt is still hanging on, as they have a nasty habit of getting inside the cam belt cover and reeking havok with your cam timming and bendding valves,
and HALFRAUDS wont a kick up the rear end telling you its dealer only, must have been a right (-expletive removed-) you spoke to,
as all good motor factors will sell these belts, even if they have to get it in for you,
have you tried GSF
regards malcolm
PS.
also the garage which did the cam belt and pump should have sugested they fit a new serpantyne belt, as it must have been on its last legs at the time
The 2.1 belt is (as far as I know) the same as the 1.9TD belts. The tensioner arrangements are the same as the later 1.9TD. If in doubt about which belt it is, take the remains off and take it to your local parts factor and use it as a template to measure up a replacement. I've done it a few times in Halfrauds now. If the belt is beyond that, use a length of string around all the pulleys, following the normal belt run, to establish its length and use that to match up a replacement.
However, before you replace it, check very carefully the tensioners are in good condition, the crank pulley is good and the aircon compressor pulley is good. Normally, something has caused a belt to shred like this and the prime suspects are the crank pulley and the spring-loaded tensioner. The usualyl reason is that something has caused the belt to run out of true and it has shredded itself against something.
As Malcolm says, don't attempt a start until you know the cause.
Check as follows:
The crank pulley is a two part pulley with the outer bonded to the inner via a rubber band. The rubber part can break up and allow the inner and outer to separate. Check the pulley very carefully and if in any doubt replace. They're expensive but if they let go, even more expensive. Check too it is tight on the crankshaft. If the pulley looks OK, fit a new belt, paint a white line across the pulley face between the inner and outer, start up and watch carefully. If the pulley looks to be running out of true or the inner moves relative to the outer, gignified by the line becoming discontinuous, the rubber has failed and the engine must not run again until the pulley is replaced.
The spring tensioner pivot bolt can shear (see my blog entry detailing this same problem happening on Xac's car) and this can allow the jockey wheel attached to the tensioner to ride at an angle. You'll be able to see it cocked up at an angle rather than running true. A new tensioner kit is around £40 and is not as bad as it looks to fit.
The manually adjusted eccentric tensioner rarely gives a lot of trouble but make sure the bearing has not collapsed and it runs true with no play.
Check the aircon comprerssor pulley spins freely, siliently and with no play. There is a big bearing in the pulley which takes all the load of the belt when the aircon is disengaged. If this bearing breaks up it will load the belt excessively, run out of true and cause the belt to shred.
Finally check the alternator and HP pump and pulleys in the same way.
This may have been a contributory cause of your hydraulic problems. A bad belt not driving the pump as effectively as it should.
It could of course just that the garage put the belt back on far too tightly and that caused it to fail although it is unusual as they need to be pretty tight to work.
With a new belt fitted, you can sight the straightness and trueness of all pulleys quite effectively by eye. Anything out of line will stand out quite clearly.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
It could of course just that the garage put the belt back on far too tightly and that caused it to fail although it is unusual as they need to be pretty tight to work
Could they have reversed the direction, which would cause it to fail early?
I think it was the height of stupidity and parsimony to refit an old, worn belt anyway - even if the wear wasn't visible. Asking for trouble for the sake of a few pounds, a small percentage of the total cost of the job.
Yes I agree,
I must admit I wont be using him again as since he replaced the belt and water pump the car gets hot quite quickly which it never used to do and in the end he kept the car day after day and pushed the price up but at least I know now...
Well its now sorted and could not have gone any better really. I managed to get a belt from GSF for a tenner ( the guy at halfords that told me the belt was a dealer part only needs shooting) and because I dont know the fron of the car from the back I got a local mobile mechanic to fit it for £50 so £60 all in and now its done Im happy. He did check all the pulleys over etc as Jim suggested and could fine no problems and just said that the belt was extremely worn and very old which I would have liked to have been told by the other mechanic who changed the cam belt in the first place but never mind.
Thanks to Jim and all others who helped me with the info......Tim
That is excellent news Delighted it was so straightforward...
You have to wonder at a garage that fits a worn belt after a cam job They show plenty of signs of deterioration before they finally let go so it was not as if he could have missed it...
I had a check in Citroen Service earlier today and the 1.9 and 2.1TD do use the same belts...
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Not trying to be Devil's advocate here, but are you SURE the first guy fitted
a new timing belt - did he also fit a new water pump when he was there...?
Sadly, there are some real cowboys happy to relieve you of your hard
earned without actually doing what they're being paid to do!!
andmcit wrote:Not trying to be Devil's advocate here, but are you SURE the first guy fitted
a new timing belt - did he also fit a new water pump when he was there...?
Good point Andrew. Knowing how "interesting" a 2.1TD cambelt change can be, it is worth a check. It is easy enough to see if a new water pup was fitted by looking up at the rear of the block from below. It should still look new and shiny.
Similarly, it is easy enough to slip off the cam covers to see if a new tensioner has been fitted. Unfortunately it is hard to tell if the belt has been replaced as they quickly look "used" from running around the tensioner and jockey wheels.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
he might have just wiped some tyre slick round the belt, the over heatting is probably due to the bl**der not bleeding the system properly
regards malcolm
Avoid Halfrauds unless you want air freshners etc. - nobody has a clue about anything remotely technical and they assume that the average punter is the same! As a cautionary tale, my mate's father had the cambelt replaced on his 16v Laguna. The Haynes BOL advises you to replace the aux. drive belt which they did'nt, it subsequently snapped and got pulled under the timing belt cover. Result? A £1500 bill for a new top end. Suddenly, £20 for an aux. drive belt looks very cheap.
My Cars: Citroen C5 Aircross 8 speed Automatic, Flair Model with far to many toys and nice comfy armchair like leather seats. ha ha Ive just had a conversation with the car. setting everything up verbally
My 1989 xantia 1.9td estate Citroen couldnt find the pulleys for so they modded the brackets and fitted 2 c5 pulleys and a dirty great shock absorber behind the fuel pump attached to the back of the top pulley which also became part of the tensioning system, now i have two tensioners instead of one half way down the side of the engine.
total cost 1 week before xmas four hundred quid I nearly ate my hat.
Delighted it was so straightforward...
They show plenty of signs of deterioration before they finally let go so it was not as if he could have missed it...
