306 1.6 petrol engine question
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306 1.6 petrol engine question
Chaps, I dont know a great deal about this engine...
My friend's seems to have just lost its cambelt tensioner... are these engines interference? it wont start now so guessing they are..
I will compression check later before we make a decision.. I told them to get car home and we can arm ourselves with knowledge rather than go straight to garage and end up with a £500 bill for a head job (which I can do anyway)
John
My friend's seems to have just lost its cambelt tensioner... are these engines interference? it wont start now so guessing they are..
I will compression check later before we make a decision.. I told them to get car home and we can arm ourselves with knowledge rather than go straight to garage and end up with a £500 bill for a head job (which I can do anyway)
John
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John,
That'll be the TU and is very unlikely to be non-interference. The valves are angled in the combustion chambers so bending is a dead cert unfortunately You may even find broken rockers if it's the 8V head.
I'd go straight into having the head off anfter doing a comprerssion check. Mercifully it's not a difficult job on the TU, especially in 8 valve form.
That'll be the TU and is very unlikely to be non-interference. The valves are angled in the combustion chambers so bending is a dead cert unfortunately You may even find broken rockers if it's the 8V head.
I'd go straight into having the head off anfter doing a comprerssion check. Mercifully it's not a difficult job on the TU, especially in 8 valve form.
Jim
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As far as I know, the XU5 never made it to the 306. If the exhaust manifold faces forwards, it's a TU...
The XU was used in the 306 for the larger displacement petrol engines. The XU7JP and XU10. The 1.6 had the TU5JP
The XU engines tend not to smash cams as they have 5 cam bearings against the three of the XUD. An 8V XU may not even bend a valve if your luck is in as the valves are 90 degrees to the pistons like an XUD. A cambelt going on a 16V XU makes a tremendous mess.
In a very old motorcycling book I have, dating fronm 1925, there is an illustration of a patent valve straightening tool It was quite common apparantly, so my Dad tells me, for the early OHV engines to drop valves...
The XU was used in the 306 for the larger displacement petrol engines. The XU7JP and XU10. The 1.6 had the TU5JP
The XU engines tend not to smash cams as they have 5 cam bearings against the three of the XUD. An 8V XU may not even bend a valve if your luck is in as the valves are 90 degrees to the pistons like an XUD. A cambelt going on a 16V XU makes a tremendous mess.
jgra1 wrote: AA man told her
'you can put tensioner back on etc and try run it, the valves should straighten themselves out if bent'
In a very old motorcycling book I have, dating fronm 1925, there is an illustration of a patent valve straightening tool It was quite common apparantly, so my Dad tells me, for the early OHV engines to drop valves...
Jim
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ok well i got back to it just now.. what a joy to work on a tiny engine with loads of space around and a manifold front and back and no tilt
rockers fine, camshaft fine, tensioner in two pieces, compression
100
50
50
0
the 0 is expected, the two 50's not so... doubt the rings as no previous sign of burning oil, (plus I would have thought that all cylinders would have suffered age related ring wear)
can't say if power of engine was good before this happend, so dont really know if she has been driving around with two low compressions..
I suppose HG failure between the two middle cylinders could cause it, yet again sems unlikely..
Will remove head in due course, but just wondered what you thought about the middle 2..
thanks
John[/u]
rockers fine, camshaft fine, tensioner in two pieces, compression
100
50
50
0
the 0 is expected, the two 50's not so... doubt the rings as no previous sign of burning oil, (plus I would have thought that all cylinders would have suffered age related ring wear)
can't say if power of engine was good before this happend, so dont really know if she has been driving around with two low compressions..
I suppose HG failure between the two middle cylinders could cause it, yet again sems unlikely..
Will remove head in due course, but just wondered what you thought about the middle 2..
thanks
John[/u]
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Often when a belt goes John, some valves will bend significantly and others will just bend a tad or just catch the edge. I suspect the 0 cylinder has caught the full force and has a well bent valve whereas the middle two 50s have just kissed and are not sealing well any more. The 100 is not particularly good either. The HG may be a bit weak but it does not take a lot of valve leakage to kill compression.
At least the camshaft and rockers are OK
I'd be tempted to replace all the valves as some may be ever so slightly bent but these can still cause trouble. It should be easy enough to tell a bent valve though by running it up and down the guide with the oil seal out of the way. If it slides freely and easily it should be OK. If it shows any sign of binding, replace it.
Yes, those little TU engines are a joy to work on after an XUD arn't they John Not only are they nice to work on they are super little performers as well...
At least the camshaft and rockers are OK
I'd be tempted to replace all the valves as some may be ever so slightly bent but these can still cause trouble. It should be easy enough to tell a bent valve though by running it up and down the guide with the oil seal out of the way. If it slides freely and easily it should be OK. If it shows any sign of binding, replace it.
Yes, those little TU engines are a joy to work on after an XUD arn't they John Not only are they nice to work on they are super little performers as well...
Jim
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All,
think it's the 1.4 engine! dooh..
Engine number on block is
KDX PTC
10F S6F
1555117
ps. removed head yesterday, all four pistons had a slight mark from exhaust valves. Put some petrol into the combustion chamber, and as expected no 4 leaked out straight under exhaust valve, the other 3 chambers seemed good.. thinking to replace no 4 exhaust valve, and regrind the other 7 valves, although will check them all when I remove them later, for straightness..
hi Malcolm
I loosened all the tappets off completely, there was a gap between them and all valves.. the timing belt was removed also.
think it's the 1.4 engine! dooh..
Engine number on block is
KDX PTC
10F S6F
1555117
ps. removed head yesterday, all four pistons had a slight mark from exhaust valves. Put some petrol into the combustion chamber, and as expected no 4 leaked out straight under exhaust valve, the other 3 chambers seemed good.. thinking to replace no 4 exhaust valve, and regrind the other 7 valves, although will check them all when I remove them later, for straightness..
hi Malcolm
I loosened all the tappets off completely, there was a gap between them and all valves.. the timing belt was removed also.
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ok
4 exhaust valves-heads bent, from slight bending to fairly bent.
Amazing that there was any compression on the first 3 pots..
strugling a bit with engine ID..
its a TU3 .. iron or alloy block I dont know... how can I tell? Car is 1995 I think
It seems to have a rudimentary monopoint injection... is this correct?
thanks chaps
John
4 exhaust valves-heads bent, from slight bending to fairly bent.
Amazing that there was any compression on the first 3 pots..
strugling a bit with engine ID..
its a TU3 .. iron or alloy block I dont know... how can I tell? Car is 1995 I think
It seems to have a rudimentary monopoint injection... is this correct?
thanks chaps
John
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ok well a few quotes
Cambelt is 12 months old on car and good..
local factor valves x 4 (Ex) £10 each....
GSF
Top end gasket - 18 50, headbolts 14 50, tensioner 19 50 or cambelt kit 30
Local factors
top end gasket AND bolts, 41, Cambelt tensioner 16 or 22 (man or auto tension), cambelt kit, 35, 47 M or A
ebay
gaskets 14 25, headbolts, 8 50
Cambelt is 12 months old on car and good..
local factor valves x 4 (Ex) £10 each....
GSF
Top end gasket - 18 50, headbolts 14 50, tensioner 19 50 or cambelt kit 30
Local factors
top end gasket AND bolts, 41, Cambelt tensioner 16 or 22 (man or auto tension), cambelt kit, 35, 47 M or A
ebay
gaskets 14 25, headbolts, 8 50
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The 1.4 TU engine is an alloy block with wet liners...well it is in our 1.4 Citroen Xsara.
It looks like this with the head off & the liners & pistons removed:
If it’s the wet liner engine (I think it will be) you have to be very careful not to disturb the liner seal that is on the bottom of each cylinder liner. The seals can be easily disturbed when removing the head as often the liners stick to the head & as you remove the head they can lift!
Do not turn the engine with the head removed without clamping the liners down as this will lift them & you will then have to replace them (as I did...see my thread below) This will involve removal of the sump, oil pump, big end caps & then the liners with the pistons.
Have a read of my thread from when I replaced the head gasket on our 1.4 TU Xsara engine.
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... sc&start=0
It looks like this with the head off & the liners & pistons removed:
If it’s the wet liner engine (I think it will be) you have to be very careful not to disturb the liner seal that is on the bottom of each cylinder liner. The seals can be easily disturbed when removing the head as often the liners stick to the head & as you remove the head they can lift!
Do not turn the engine with the head removed without clamping the liners down as this will lift them & you will then have to replace them (as I did...see my thread below) This will involve removal of the sump, oil pump, big end caps & then the liners with the pistons.
Have a read of my thread from when I replaced the head gasket on our 1.4 TU Xsara engine.
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... sc&start=0
Last edited by uncle buck on 03 Jun 2008, 22:06, edited 2 times in total.
2006 C4 1.6 HDi 16V (92) non FAP
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer