Citroen AX 1.4d Head Gasket failure?

Thompatruck · Unread post by **Thompatruck** » 10 May 2008, 01:56

It's been a while but i'm hoping you can help

I've got a 1.4d AX with a serious overheating problem, i've changed out the radiator and the stat but still the problem persists (just goes to show you should ask first

)

This is my trusty backup car for when i'm working on my Alfa and to be honest I tend to drive it hard

Basically I can run it for max 5 miles and the temp light comes on, if I try to remove the rad cap the water comes out in a fountain, if fact after refilling it and running it a mile it spat cold water back out. the system shows no signs of leaks and the pipe leading back to the rad does harden up although not really hard. There's no "mayonnaise" in the oil, and their is no loss in power.

QUESTIONS
I'm guessing it's the head gasket gone? Although I've read rumours of water pump failure, what would you think?

Am I right in thinking the best test for a HG failure is to start the engine from cold leave it for 30s and remove the rad cap and watch the fountain?

If so is the best place to get a Head Gasket at GSF or try fleabay?

Is it a terrible idea to reuse the head bolts?

Costs of a head skim? £40?

Do I need cam timing tools? (Bear in mind I'm used to playing with Alfa 16v TS engines

)

Don't suppose anyone's got an old AX haynes needing a new home have they?

APOLOGIES FOR THE HUGE POST BUT ALL HELP WILL BE GREATLY RECEIVED AS I'VE NO INTENTION OF GIVING UP ON THE OLD GIRL!

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 10 May 2008, 08:14

From your description it sounds as if there is a problem with the head/gasket. As well as the checks you describe you could also start the engine with the rad cap off and look for bubbles escaping from the coolant.

You could buy a gasket set from Ebay but I'd personally buy from GSF or similar so that its a known quality product I'm buying which may save having to do the job again very soon.

Your head bolt question, well they are 'use only once' as they stretch, again I wouldn't wish to risk a bolt snapping off in the block which would be real grief.

If you're after a manual for an AX I've got five binders of genuine Citroën ones but I'll have to check that the ones for your engine are there, you can have the lot for £10 + post.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 10 May 2008, 09:27

try crancking the engine over whilst stone cold with the cap off, if coolant gushes out then the head gasket has gone,

i agree with DickieG dont buy gasket from fleebay, i find the melior gaskets GSF sell to be very good and head bolst sets are not a huge amount of dosh from the same
regards malcolm

miked · Unread post by **miked** » 10 May 2008, 15:07

May be head gasket but are you sure you got all the air locks out of the system after refilling it.

I'm not familiar with diesel AX's but my old petrol took a bit of bleeding. There was a valve on a water pipe behind the engine on the drivers side which needed slackened off to do it. Looked like a tyre valve dust cap.

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 10 May 2008, 21:31

How easy is it to start? Firstly do a compression test to check the gasket, no mayonaise means the gasket hasn't broken near an oil/water channel.

I had a pug 106 1.4d (same engine as you have in the AX) which had a failed head gasket, in a way that the gasket was broken where exhaust was getting into the water and vice versa (not oil, hence no mayo).

The engine did get hot because the water kept disappearing somewhere, probably into the engine when it was sucking air in before igniting.

The car did become increasingly difficult to start (losing compression as the crack in the gasket spread out or perished).

More checks you can do is to put your hand on the rad after a good run, it should be at least warm, if not check your thermostat.

But a build up or pressure sounds like the headgasket, but it may not be, it could just be boiling water because the thermostat isn't opening, or the water isn't circulating around the engine properly.

Hope you have some idea now, they are just ideas mind, tests will confirm things. Let us know what happened.

Good luck.

Thompatruck · Unread post by **Thompatruck** » 12 May 2008, 18:42

Cheers for the help guys

I'll have a go on the test and see but to be honest I 99.9% sure it's the HG

Dickie, cheers for the offer of the manuals, I've ended up buying a haynes from fleabay with a free voucher I received

but if I need anything more I'll give you a bell

IT's def not the stat as it's brand new

and the exit pipes are warming up, I'm pretty sure it's not an airlock as the system generally seems to be working apart from the obvious. As for starting...first time every time!

I agree with the headbolts as a snapped one is just not worth the hassle

I'm also getting a new timing belt and aux belt while I'm at it

Thanks again guys I'll keep you posted

f00lzz · Unread post by **f00lzz** » 12 May 2008, 19:27

DickieG wrote: Your head bolt question, well they are 'use only once' as they stretch, again I wouldn't wish to risk a bolt snapping off in the block which would be real grief.

Aluminium Head and Block.... watch those threads!!

Thompatruck · Unread post by **Thompatruck** » 13 May 2008, 00:00

f00lzz wrote: Aluminium Head and Block.... watch those threads!!

**SHUDDERS** Been there and done that on an Alfa block, that second where you go, i'll just tighten it one more time to be sure.........Ahhhh *&%$ £$&% !!!!

Cheers for the heads up

Thompatruck · Unread post by **Thompatruck** » 13 Jun 2008, 10:30

Right well i've stripped her down and build her back up and am trying to turn the engine (spanner on the crank pulley) and it's really tight to turn on the top of the cycle, can be done but requires a 2ft breaker bar!

Now I realise that the derv blocks are higher compression than what i'm used to but that seems a little too tight to me (Turned it with the glowplugs still in)

Otherwise what do you think the problems could be? head bolts too tight? wrong thickness gasket?

Any help greatly appreciated

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 13 Jun 2008, 10:42

The compression is around 22 or 23 to 1 rather than 9 or 10 for a petrol and the pressures are 4-600 lb sq in rather than about 150 for a petrol. I'm surprised you can turn it over at all!

If you can get the glowplugs out then it should spin freely. Otherwise start it up and see what happens if you think its in order.

Thompatruck · Unread post by **Thompatruck** » 13 Jun 2008, 11:04

[quote="jeremy"]The compression is around 22 or 23 to 1 rather than 9 or 10 for a petrol and the pressures are 4-600 lb sq in rather than about 150 for a petrol. I'm surprised you can turn it over at all!
[\quote]

"BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL! "

Thanks Jeremy! you've eased my mind

......that's why I love forums

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 13 Jun 2008, 19:07

how much did you have skimmed of the head, and did you have the valves sunk to there crect depth, i find i can usualy turn these over with a 1/2 inch ratchet
regards malcolm