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khand
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Greetings to all from new member

Post by khand »

Greetings one and all.
Due to the ever increasing cost of Diesel in the UK (and I expect globally) I've decided to have a go at used cooking oil as fuel.
Based on what I have learned from t'interweb, the XUD9 seems to be an engine of preference within the fat community.
Accordingly, I've bought off the auction site ( yes, that one) a 1998 Xantia TD with a snapped cam belt. (Allegedly at idle on a cold morning)
This presents an interesting engineering challenge, and I expect a few surprises along the way. Even if it transpires that all IS actually lost, the price paid was only a little above scrap value and would represent good value as a learning experience on the XUD.
I've worked on Diesels of all sorts of shapes and sizes, but I'm finding that this little 4 in line transverse is a bit of a pain in the posterior to get seriously to grips with.
I'm thinking of creating a bit of a blog type thing either elsewhere, or even as a thread with many updating posts. My first question to the forum is therefore "Do it elsewhere, or as a thread on here?"

I am finding that the Haynes manual covers the basics of how to do this, that and the other, but seems to let one down at the most inopportune moment so I am now only using it as a guide, with experience and engineering common sense taking the lead.
Is there some secret knack of getting the inlet manifold off its studs (It fouls on the turbo or exhaust manifold) even though even Citroen service shows it is attached by cap screws not on studs.
Are the studs the evidence of someone else's endevour, or is there an undocumented change point in the engine build?
Should I be following the route of head assy off as a complete assembly?
Once again, greetings to all
Regards

Kevin

1998 Xantia TD (VOR)
1998 Synergie shed. Almost on top of the latent defects from previous owners.
2002 Saxo diesel. Bit of a shed, ex driving school, Cat C. Goes not to bad all things considered.
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Post by myglaren »

Welcome khand.

While it is up to the admins as to how to publish your rebuild woes, I'd say it is a good idea.

A thread where anyone can chip in would seem to me to be the best thing, as all sorts of advisory snippets from the experienced engine rebuilder will have value for all.

Good addition to the forum IMO.
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Post by CitroJim »

Hi Kevin and a warm welcome to the forum :D

By all means create a blog here. I did for my 1.9TD clutch change a while ago...

I sympathise strongly about the manifold nuts, being a veteran of the very job you're doing not so long ago. It is an interesting challange.

The secret to removing the exhaust manifold is long fingers, an ability to see round corners and a wide variety of different shaped 13mm spanners! I have a stubby ring spanner shaped as a lazy "C". 13mm one end and 11mm the other. It is perfect for these type of jobs and the 11mm one is great for the impossible 11mm stud on the back of the rear timing belt cover.

The nice part is that the exhaust manifold and turbo can stay attached to the exhaust downpipe and stay in-situ whilst the head comes off. Just take care of the turbo oil lines and stuff the turbo inlet and outlet with rags to prevent ingress of foreign objects.

I expect you will (or have found) find the camshaft smashed into two or three pieces and one or more cam caps broken. The cam is easy but the caps are matched to the head as they are line-bored at the time of manufacture and finding another set that will fit is akin to finding the answer to life, the universe and everything. You're best off getting a good head from a scrapper, having it skimmed and fitting that after a gentle valve lap, new stem seals and a clearance check/reset. When you check the clearances, I have a handy little Excel spreadsheet I can let you have a copy of that takes all the headache out of the maths involved in calculating the new shims you need.

If the cam caps are intact, you'll be happy to know the valves rarely bend as they are at a 90 degree angle to the piston crowns and just get pushed hard up, hence the smashed camshaft.

The Haynes manual is called the BoL on here. BoL stands for "Book of Lies" :lol: It's a bit skimpy on fine detail in parts but worry not, we here can fill in all the gaps.

Looking forward to the next instalment Kevin and anything you want to know, just shout. You'll love the Xantia once it's up and running :D

I'm still pretty familiar with the job. It was only a few weeks ago I finally lost the scars on my wrists from removing/replacing the manifolds :lol: :lol:
Last edited by CitroJim on 20 Apr 2008, 17:22, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by CitroJim »

myglaren wrote:Welcome khand.

While it is up to the admins as to how to publish your rebuild woes, I'd say it is a good idea.

A thread where anyone can chip in would seem to me to be the best thing, as all sorts of advisory snippets from the experienced engine rebuilder will have value for all.

Good addition to the forum IMO.
Spot on Steve, my precise thoughts :D Except you expressed them much better than I did. :lol:
Jim

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Post by oscarloco »

Hi and Welcome!

Please post all your progress and comments. This forum is a very big source of answers. The guys here are very helpful.

Enjoy your stay!
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MikeM
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Inlet manifold (studs) - Me too!

Post by MikeM »

Hi everybody from yet another newbie.

I've decided to spend my waking hours changing the head on my 97 Xantia 1.9TD against the advice of my local Citroen specialist.

Reason: Specialist tells me that blue smoke is diesel not oil - Humble pie on standby but everything I've ever done on engines tells me otherwise.

Problem: Starting the car having been left overnight or long period gives clouds of blue smoke and rough running, but both symptoms clear at about the same time and although 'rattly' the car then runs fine without smoke (of any colour) and pulls like a train. Restarts after brief shutdowns are also fine. My theory - oil seeping down valve stem over time which is then burnt off during starting.

I too would like to know what the magic word is for getting the inlet manifold off. The 'BoL' (picking up the jargon already :wink: ) says it should be bolts holding it on, but just like khand, I've found that it's held on by studs.

I've managed to get the six nuts off of the studs, but I've still got that little B***R down the back in the middle to go (Now I know why Haynes labelled it 'B').

Q. When (if) I finally manage to get 'B' off, will the manifold move back far enough to clear the studs or am I looking at another procedure altogether?

ps. I'm new to forums generally, so apologise in advance for any poor 'netiquette' - As in all things, I'm happy to be educated.
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Post by MikeT »

Hello and welcome to you both Kevin and Mike. Please do blog your work in the blog section. You might find my own blog of interest and assistance as I have just completed head work and posted my own findings, fixes and methods that you may find useful, particularly the manifolds which is different to that shown in my Haynes manual.

Yes, these engines are a PITA to work on compared to others due to the lack of space but if I can manage it with the help of this forum, I'd suggest ANYONE can.
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Post by Xaccers »

Let me tell you about Cassy.
Driving round the M25 on the way to work one night, at 40mph through roadworks, her cam belt snapped.
This broke the cam, and it's caps.
I successfully replaced the cam and found suitable caps to fit.
Unfortunately the lock nut on the belt tensioner came off, the tensioner moved along it's stud and eventually bent it, causing the belt to try and eat it's way through the covers.
The belt got caught between the covers and fuel pump, locking it so the engine wouldn't start.
I thought I'd busted the engine again, but they're tough as tanks.
With CitroJim's help, we discovered what had gone wrong, and fitted a new belt kit and covers.
Unfortunately I don't have off road parking, and Cassy's tax was due to run out at midnight when we got her running again, so we had to drive her across Milton Keynes to a friend's house.
The timing wasn't quite right, and it damaged one of the caps.
Eventually it broke, gouged the cam, which in turn gouged it's journal.
This meant a new head, which Jim and I fitted over a couple of days ouside my house (Cassy having been taxed again by now).

I firmly believe if we hadn't been in such a hurry and gotten the timing right, Cassy would still be running on the replacement cam and caps.
So I'd suggest getting hold of a cam and as many caps as you can (best if you get them from the same engine) and see if they'll fit.
That much only cost me £35 and is a lot easier to fit than a new head.

Don't forget to change the water pump too.
While the tensioner and rollers can usually last two belt changes, the water pump should be swapped every time.
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MikeM
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Post by MikeM »

Xac, when you replaced the head did you find the inlet manifold on studs an if so how did you deal with that?

Mike
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Post by myglaren »

Are the valve stem oil seals replacable with just the rocker box cover removed or do the valves have to come out - I'm guessing that the problem is the seals.
Must be >20 years since I reconditioned a cylinder head :(
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Post by Xaccers »

MikeM wrote:Xac, when you replaced the head did you find the inlet manifold on studs an if so how did you deal with that?

Mike
I was sensible and got CitroJim to do that part :)

If memory serves, to improve access we used a block of wood between the bulkhead and the engine, with at least the driver's side engine mount off, to roll the engine forward, with a jack under the sump to help adjust it's height.
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Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

Kevin & Mike,

I have found the forum members to be just about the most helpful bunch of people online relating to my citroen xantia 1.9 TD Mk2 estate even if I occassionally ask a stupid question or get slightly off topic their patience and experience makes them all very valuable contacts whilst owning my citroen cars.

good luck with the cylinder heads fellas, I shall be watching for future referance.

best wishes Nigel. :wink:
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