ZX 1.9 Turbo Diesel 87k N Reg.

aimcarthur · Post by **aimcarthur** » 14 Apr 2008, 13:07

Hi Guys,

Similar to rlatarche post of today's date I am having similar problems.

Car has been going great for the last 20k I have owned it now problems at also started on the button.

Coolant changed 3 months ago by Citroen dealer. Oil changed on the button by Citroen every 6,000 miles.

Last week, suddenly over night starting is now rough. I wait for the glow plug to go out and even a little bit longer sometimes and it starts first time, but appears to be missing on a cylinder resulting in rough running and clouds of blue smoke appearing from the exhuast. The happens for about 30 seconds, if revved, it continues to miss.

Once warmed up it goes great with no smoke out of the exhaust etc...

Is this a glow plug duff or something more serious.

Citroen garge have advised it is likely not be glow plugs but given it is blue smoke that the head gasket or a valve guide has failed, causing the miss fire when cold.

Glow plug failure would be white smoke - is this true ?

Can only one glow plug fail ?

Grateful for any thoughts guys.

Alastair

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 14 Apr 2008, 13:24

Yes the glow plugs can fail individually.

Your first check should be the glow plugs before you go off thinking the worst.

You will have to remove the link wire between each plug then use a circuit tester from the live of the battery to the tip (where the little nut goes) of each plug in turn ....if the circuit tester lights up the plug is ok. If you haven't got a circuit tester you can easily make one with a 12 volt bulb & 2 pieces of wire.

jmd · Post by **jmd** » 15 Apr 2008, 01:07

I agree with Uncle buck I usually check the glow plugs by taking a wire from the + terminal on the battery (having removed the straps that link each plug) and tip the top of each plug with the wire - if it sparks it works, if no spark glow plug is dead. Hope it is easier to reach the glow plugs on your ZX than it is on the Xantia.Glow Plugs are uncertain components in so far as they can last for ever, or an individual one can go after a few thousand miles

N_CURTIS · Post by **N_CURTIS** » 15 Apr 2008, 12:46

Could this also be related to the injection pump?

The reason I say this is because when I was quizzing my local Cit/Pug specialist about what to look for on the diesels, he described the very same symptoms that would indicate pump trouble.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 15 Apr 2008, 13:11

From what I can gather, a bosch Injection Pump is one of the strongest and most reliable components on the car! Their only weak point is the seals themselves which I've read should be serviced every ten years. IOW, the bosch pump would be the last item I would suspect as being faulty.

Maybe the specialist was referring to the Lucas pump as I understand these are a more sensitive and delicate design?

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 16 Apr 2008, 09:36

N_CURTIS wrote:Could this also be related to the injection pump?

The reason I say this is because when I was quizzing my local Cit/Pug specialist about what to look for on the diesels, he described the very same symptoms that would indicate pump trouble.

Yes a failing pump could give the same symptoms but as has already been mentioned with any poor starting problem its best to start with the simplest thing (Glow plugs) & work towards the most complicated (injection pump) to find the problem....you should never jump in assuming the worst...work through a fault finding list dismissing each item as you go, & never overlook the obvious & assume the plugs are good etc.

You wouldn't call an electrician in to rewired your house because your living room bulb wouldn't come on would you....you would change / test the bulb first...then the fuse...etc...the electrician would be the last port of call.

N_CURTIS · Post by **N_CURTIS** » 16 Apr 2008, 16:46

I wasn't suggesting the pump is the culprit in this case, and yes, I too would look into the simplest/cheapest option first.

I just thought I'd share what I'd learnt.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 16 Apr 2008, 22:21

In about 12 years and over 200k miles of XM ownership I have never had a Bosch pump fail, I'm not saying that they don't, only that its very rare, and I have only changed one set of injectors. Glow plugs would certainly be the first place to look.

aimcarthur · Post by **aimcarthur** » 17 Apr 2008, 15:51

Thanks guys.

I have decieded not to take it too Citroen tmrw morning and change the glow plugs my self first (ordered Beru from GSF at lunch). Should be a straight forward job apart from the one behind the pump itself.

Any tips on how to get this one out ?

Let you know the outcome after the weekend.

Bit nervous about cracking the aluminium head but should be ok with even pressure ? Again any tip welcome.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 17 Apr 2008, 16:38

A good quality open ended spanner at an angle should do it if its not to tight.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 17 Apr 2008, 16:50

If you remove the fuel inlet (banjo) then the water hose, bracket and cover plate (two allen bolts) you'll have better access to #1 than the other three.

aimcarthur · Post by **aimcarthur** » 20 Apr 2008, 19:46

Ok, so got my local garage to change them over (limited time msyself) and all is now well.

Incidently I mistakingly ordered two sets of Beru plugs (1.9td), still wrapped up in the delivery box with invoice for proof;

anyone interested say £15 all in ?

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 20 Apr 2008, 20:03

Good to know it's sorted. I had to pay someone else to change my glow plugs first time around on my previous Xantia. With my current Xantia I thought I'd take the plunge and DIY. It wasn't an easy job but the relief of solving the problem was worth it. Unfortunately and too late, I've read others tell that my choice of NGK's (well it was all the shop stocked and didn't know any different at the time) are not reliable in these engines and fear I may be re-visiting the job sometime. Time will tell but I'm sorely tempted to take you up on that offer and buy the set just in case. I could send the money by electronic bank transfer that takes a few days to clear but I'm in no rush.

aimcarthur · Post by **aimcarthur** » 20 Apr 2008, 21:14

Thank for the last post MikeT. If you want to contact me re: Buru plugs just email me and I am sure we can sort something out.

I agree with you, the first time round I just wanted it sorted. it does 90 miles a day to work and back so piece of mind more than anything. Citroen, the garage that replaced it offer a 12 month garentuee on the plugs anyway, so if they have not gone wrong by then hopefuly they should be good.

al.

Post by **myglaren** » 20 Apr 2008, 23:20

If you have had the email aimcarthur, edit out your email address - the webcrawlers will find it and deluge you with --adware link removed-- offers.

If you need to put up an email address do it in the form of aimcarthur at hotmail dot com so ony humans can recognise it.
Best to ssend it to interested parties via the PM system.