Non starting Xantia

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 14 Apr 2008, 10:47

As previously mentioned, I bought a Xantia advertised as a non-starter and as a result had a flat battery. The AA attached jump leads, sprayed easystart into the intake after the filter and I primed the grenade which led to instant starting within a few cranks.

Driving it home has recharged the battery - this morning it's reading over 12.9v with the ignition off. Ignition on with pre-heat sees this drop to 12.6v and cranking drops it to 10.4v but it won't fire despite four attempts with full pre-heat cycles.

Can anyone determine if the above data appears normal or does it indicate a problem somewhere - battery, glow plugs etc? To repeat what the AA man did, I will have to purchase jump leads and easystart but I'm after a more permanent fix, obviously.

All suggestions welcome.

Post by **CitroJim** » 14 Apr 2008, 13:15

Looks to me Mike, as if you have a 4 duff glowplugs or a duff glowplug controller. Have you checked for voltage on the glowplugs themselves when the orange light is on?

I think they're not taking current, I'd expect the voltage to drop a little more if they were in fact heating.

Be aware the ECU controls the glowplug timer on these. Check the multi-plug on the controller itself if there is no voltage appearing on the plugs. Also, check the there is not a short-circuit on the glowplug line. I caused one once by careless reinstallation of the glowplugs. It did not blow any fuses, just stopped them working...

A TD engine will never start without glowplugs... The engine is healthy enough, hence it fired up easily with Easystart.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 14 Apr 2008, 14:47

Not checked glowplugs or feeds to them yet - in fact I've got a lot of checks, tests and repairs planned, not to mention the cleaning/deodorising to do. I know the battery isn't 100% but my old xantia would have fired on it I'm sure so you're probably right in your diagnosis.

I have been given a few past receipts for a "full service" and none of them list glow plugs as being changed yet pollen filter has been replaced every time, among other parts.

Cheers,
Mike

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 14 Apr 2008, 15:50

So far I can confirm that 12V is being fed to the tops of the first two glowplug terminals but after shorting live to earth with my probe I decided to stop there.

The car re-starts easily enough from hot, though I noticed the pre-heat light stays on a lot longer (as it does with a stone cold engine) than my old xantia light would when hot.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 14 Apr 2008, 18:07

MikeT wrote:So far I can confirm that 12V is being fed to the tops of the first two glowplug terminals but after shorting live to earth with my probe I decided to stop there.

Ahhh .. but you dont need check them all. The heavy gauge wire connecting all plugs rarely fails at all.
What you need to do is checking that the glowplugs have a resistance less than 1 ohm. That is in common terms a shortcircuit - from the tip to nearby clean engine earth.

But then you need to disconnect the heavy wire from EVERY plug - which is at least as entertaining as what you have done up to now ...

reblack68 · Post by **reblack68** » 14 Apr 2008, 19:07

The crude way to carry out the check that Anders described is with a test lamp. One terminal on the battery positive and the other on the glow plug terminal. If the glow plug is OK the bulb will light. It's not a perfect test but it's a good guide.

In my experience you don't notice the difference when one plug goes but the car becomes almost impossible to start when the second one goes.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 14 Apr 2008, 22:32

I'll test them with the multimeter first and if I fry that, I'll make up a test light.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 15 Apr 2008, 15:14

I couldn't get any resistance readings off the threaded tips so I pulled two glow plugs out - can't see me having the patience to tackle the other two behind the IP at this point in time.

I connected the plugs directly to the battery and they are deader than a dodo.

Post by **myglaren** » 15 Apr 2008, 15:20

Your perseverance appears to have paid off then.
Plain sailing from now on.
Watch out for cheap glow plugs though!

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 15 Apr 2008, 16:29

I'm not so sure, apart from the poor attitude of the assistant, I think I might have been given the wrong ones.

When I went to Halfords to look for a glow plug spanner, I looked up the reference numbers for the glow plugs and noticed they list two types, depending on year - the crossover being the year this car was manufactured. 1993-1998 and 1998-on. This car is a MK2 so I suspect it would be the latter type, but even the Halfords assistant thinks it's the first type.

Anyone know? I've currently got NGK 3473 Y-924J and they don't exactly match the Beru plugs I've removed.

Penguin · Post by **Penguin** » 15 Apr 2008, 18:46

Phone your Citroen dealer spares dept. Quote your engine number and they will probably be able to tell you. I found my dealer very helpful over the phone.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 15 Apr 2008, 20:34

I've discovered NGK list the same plug for three 1.9 xantias. It seems thread length is the only difference so they actually fit all three, with mine showing extra thread externally, otherwise they are the same. Seems Halfords own-brand tailored theirs.

Can you believe it, all four plugs are dead? How it ever started before now is beyond me. On testing only one gives a resistance reading of 30ohms, the other three have no continuity at all. New ones fitted and wires re-attached but light was fading before I could refit everything that was removed for access.

I've lost one socket, one nut and a lot of skin. In looking for the lost bits, I can also see other nuts and screws wedged in tight places.

That is a job I will not want to repeat, my back is going to make me pay for several days to come but at least it's done now.

Post by **CitroJim** » 15 Apr 2008, 20:39

A bit late now Mike, but the secret is to stuff rags behind the pump to catch loose sockets and nuts..

Still you'll know for next time

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 15 Apr 2008, 20:51

Actually Jim, I found those two easier! I lost the socket behind the fuel filter and the nut behind the oil filler.

The other estranged nuts and screws are also in that vicinity. I'll resume the search & rescue operation at first light tomorrow - or after a hearty breakfast 8)

p.s. I think I know why Citroen revised that coolant pipe and head connector now

p.p.s. One of the old glow plugs wires was held on by a nylon locknut! It was not tight against the terminals.

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 16 Apr 2008, 14:16

citrojim wrote:A bit late now Mike, but the secret is to stuff rags behind the pump to catch loose sockets and nuts..

And having an extending magnetic pick-up tool close by is useful too !!

Dave.