Xantia - squealing on startup
Moderator: RichardW
- CitroJim
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There are a few possibilities here.
As Peter says, belt tension (and condition) first and then, if not that..
As there seems a connection between hydraulic pressure building and the noise, it may be that air is bleeding into the HP pump suction pipe and emptying it of LHM. For the first few moments the pump is running dry and complaining bitterly until it has primed itelf again. The pump relies on LHM for lubrication and if this is the cause, it will not last very long at all. The suction hose from the LHM reservoir to the the pump is known to perish and let in air but it'll never show LHM leaks because it is generally under suction.
If this is the problem, hydraulic pressure will take much longer than normal to establish.
If not that, it could also be your alternator, your water pump, auxillary belt tensioners or the aircon compressor.
The first thing I'd do is to clear the water pump of blame. I've heard a duff water pump making just the noise you describe and the worrying thing was that on investigation it was not leaking despite a lot of play in its bearings. I need not tell you the catastrophe that will result if the water pump bearing collapses. It'll take the cam belt with it..
Remove the auxillary drive belt and start up. If the noise remains, it's the water pump. If it goes, then it is something being driven by the auxillary belt. The guilty party will give itself away with rough bearings and or play which should be easily felt by spinning each component by hand. Check the tensioners too. The alternator is top suspect.
Do also check the cranksaft pulley to ensure it has not started to disintegrate due to a failing rubber ring separatingt the inner and outer. It's nasty when they break up completely.
As Peter says, belt tension (and condition) first and then, if not that..
As there seems a connection between hydraulic pressure building and the noise, it may be that air is bleeding into the HP pump suction pipe and emptying it of LHM. For the first few moments the pump is running dry and complaining bitterly until it has primed itelf again. The pump relies on LHM for lubrication and if this is the cause, it will not last very long at all. The suction hose from the LHM reservoir to the the pump is known to perish and let in air but it'll never show LHM leaks because it is generally under suction.
If this is the problem, hydraulic pressure will take much longer than normal to establish.
If not that, it could also be your alternator, your water pump, auxillary belt tensioners or the aircon compressor.
The first thing I'd do is to clear the water pump of blame. I've heard a duff water pump making just the noise you describe and the worrying thing was that on investigation it was not leaking despite a lot of play in its bearings. I need not tell you the catastrophe that will result if the water pump bearing collapses. It'll take the cam belt with it..
Remove the auxillary drive belt and start up. If the noise remains, it's the water pump. If it goes, then it is something being driven by the auxillary belt. The guilty party will give itself away with rough bearings and or play which should be easily felt by spinning each component by hand. Check the tensioners too. The alternator is top suspect.
Do also check the cranksaft pulley to ensure it has not started to disintegrate due to a failing rubber ring separatingt the inner and outer. It's nasty when they break up completely.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Have you checked the crankshaft pulley?
In fact its a Harmonic balancer or something - basically 2 parts - with the outer one mounted on rubber. The idea is that it damps out some vibrations and I think it may work and make the engine less gruff.
However the problem is that eventually the rubber bond breaks up and the 2 bits strat to move independently of each other.
After all that theory its actually quite easy to diagnose. Make a mark across both bits - ie a line with paint or even chalk - and look at it after the car has been driven. If the 2 parts have moved relative to each other it will show.
In fact its a Harmonic balancer or something - basically 2 parts - with the outer one mounted on rubber. The idea is that it damps out some vibrations and I think it may work and make the engine less gruff.
However the problem is that eventually the rubber bond breaks up and the 2 bits strat to move independently of each other.
After all that theory its actually quite easy to diagnose. Make a mark across both bits - ie a line with paint or even chalk - and look at it after the car has been driven. If the 2 parts have moved relative to each other it will show.
jeremy
Belts can squeal on startup. If the engine is cold there may be some condensation on the belt and rust on the pulleys. A bit of slip will polish the rust away and also warm the belt which may get stickier and grip better.
When you start the alternator is working hard to recharge the starting current consumed - this will drop quite quickly if all is healthy. Much the same will go for the air conditoning.
Lubricating the belt may help diasgnosis - if it goes quiet you'll know its the belt and nothing else. I hesitate to recommend any lubricant in case there are untoward consequences - but I did have a Renault 21 with a generally noisy belt drive - and I ended up coating the belt with Vaseline which needed replacing every 2 months or so. On the way I'd tried silicon and WD40 but it became addicted and needed more severe solutions!
When you start the alternator is working hard to recharge the starting current consumed - this will drop quite quickly if all is healthy. Much the same will go for the air conditoning.
Lubricating the belt may help diasgnosis - if it goes quiet you'll know its the belt and nothing else. I hesitate to recommend any lubricant in case there are untoward consequences - but I did have a Renault 21 with a generally noisy belt drive - and I ended up coating the belt with Vaseline which needed replacing every 2 months or so. On the way I'd tried silicon and WD40 but it became addicted and needed more severe solutions!
jeremy
- CitroJim
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No objection from this end Recommendations for good Indies are always welcome.MikeT wrote: I think that indie deserves a mention if that's ok with the admins, sounds like a no-bull, knows-his-stuff man! Was he reasonably priced too?
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49531
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
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- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
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You'll certainly have an involving hobby with an Activa but go for it Activas need preserving as they are getting scarce and one day they will attain their rightful classic status, as the BX 16V is now beginning to now after being practically driven into extinction by the 205GTi boys raping them for their engines; the same is now happening with the Activa, they are becoming engine donorssuperloopy1 wrote:I'm looking for an addition yo the family, mabe an Activa. Us old guys need a hobby ....
Such as shame as a well sorted Activa is a wonderful car and like Concorde, they are pretty much unique.
Love and preserve one. You know it makes sense but only as a second car. They have a magnetic attraction to petrol station forecourts and have something of a drink problem
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...