Retrofit Hydraulic Suspension

KP · Unread post by KP » 03 Apr 2008, 13:14

Has anyone ever seen or heard of the suspension from a citroen being fitted to another car on a one off basis? Not like rolls royce and stuff.

Im thinking for a future landrover( a few years of saving yet) that this could prove a good compromise on suspension as i could have manually set levels for each axle and also for each side so that if i was crawling along a long verge or the like i could lower one side of the vehicle a bit more and make it more stable so as less likely to tip over.

The hard things i think for such a thing would be,

Mounting the HP pump,
Running the HP pipes to each part of the system,
Having a way to control it from inside the vehicle and keeping the vehicle water tight as well...

Any ideas are most welcome

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 03 Apr 2008, 13:26

i gave the guy who used to run the MOT station i go to all the hydraulic components from a GSA i scrapped years ago, he was going to build a hydraulic garss cutting tractor, never did happen
regards malcolm

Unread post by **RichardW** » 03 Apr 2008, 13:43

Wot, like this:

Land DS

Going to be a lot of work, that's for sure!

slim123 · Unread post by **slim123** » 03 Apr 2008, 13:49

A Landrover with Citroen Suspension??

It's already been done, have a look at this.

http://www.citroen-ds-id.com/ds/Landrov ... nsion.html

The steering rack is not DS, this is the SM rack, these are better as they self centre the same as a CX.

I would say that it may be an easier option to use BX struts all round as this would be easier to fit.

I dont know if the Land Rover had height correctors fitted, this would be the trickyest bit to set up.

Regards
Slim.

Unread post by **aerodynamica** » 03 Apr 2008, 16:21

That's wikid, but they've used the actual DS half axles on their bespoke chassis, I rekon if you wanted to keep the existing Land Rover axles you'd have the biggest problem finding a way of adapting the hydraulic struts (lots of varieties for different Cit models) to the live axles.

If you want a system for changing the height of one side as well as the whole platform you'd need a height corrector per wheel and a really clever linkage to operate the 2 fronts simultaneously and the rears for flat surfaces but to have a way of overriding that to work the side-to-side system. Not impossible just bloomin difficult!

It's a great project idea tho.

Unread post by **myglaren** » 03 Apr 2008, 21:11

Have you seen the Mexican "Low Rider" conversions. They can raise and lower each corner of the car individually, would be a similar conversion.

Lowrider

KP · Unread post by KP » 04 Apr 2008, 08:23

Id thought of the low riders but have no experience with using air pressure in the rams and then there is the boot space for the compressor and the other bits of the kit...

Id probably want to use the bits from an XM as they are designed from the outset for more wieght than a BX or the older CX id imagine.

For the the hieght correction i was thinking the normal Cit setup where by the front and rear are auto controlled by the hieght correctors but then have a block fitted to each corner thats a bit like the hydractive blocks in that it would lock the line so no pressure could flow towards the sphere from the hieght corrector and then also bleed the pressure off from that sphere back to the LHM res in the engine bay so as to just drop that one corner at a time.

Thinking about it another way as well, are the XM struts the ones with the longest travel in them or does another citroen offer better travel length??

its nice to see others have already tried it

Just as a side note i'd most likely use the isuzu 3.1D engine as its most suitable for SVO from what ive seen on the SVO forums or maybe a Merc OM603 i think it is as they have a lot of low down grunt and seem as solid as plonking in an xud from a xantia or the like

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 04 Apr 2008, 08:52

As a matter of interest how would this system work better than the air systems used by people like Land Rover - and even Citroen on the C Crosser? (I think)

KP · Unread post by KP » 04 Apr 2008, 08:57

It would be easier to maintain to from what i know of hydrualics.

Plus i dont really fancy a P38 or Disco2, more likely a Series III or 110 double cab.

Im also thinking it may be easier to get rid of the live axles in favour of driveshafts that would allow more independant movement from the wheels and leave less items underneath to get damaged, though this will need looking into as i havent seen it in any of the landy mags ive bought of late...

Unread post by **aerodynamica** » 04 Apr 2008, 09:23

Id probably want to use the bits from an XM as they are designed from the outset for more wieght than a BX or the older CX id imagine.

not sure about that, if the LHM pressure is the same or similar, then it's the cross sectional area of the hydraulic strut that determines how much it'll lift: the thicker it is the more wight it'll lift but slower.

The front struts on the XM/BX/Xantia are the longest physically. The rear ones on all Citroens, though all different, are much shorter but they give longer wheel travel! This is due to the leverage ratio of the susp arms to the piston. XM/BX/Xant have MacPherson type struts, a 1:1 ratio of movement. Older Cits like CX/GSA/DS etc have double whishbones that are levered to the front struts (same size as rears) but still give masses of travel.

KP · Unread post by KP » 04 Apr 2008, 10:51

Interesting ideas and thoughts.

So maybe a beter option is some form of rear swing arm arrangement with some medium length struts to give it enough spring and rebounce in normal hieght.

To be honest normal hieght could even be just an inch away from the bump stops as its not really ever going to have to be as close to the ground as a hydro citroen....

Unread post by **aerodynamica** » 04 Apr 2008, 13:07

True, but if you're making your own chassis up like in the link above, you can choose where the bumpstops go!

Look at the landy above, they've used the front half axles of a DS for the front suspension AND the rear, that seems like a really good solution because it can be symmetrical and that the DS half axles bolt straight onto a machined flat surface, all the geometry of the axles is already there for each half axle unit. Also, the DS has probably the longest suspension travel of any Citroen. It's also got proper bearings in the suspension arm pivots, super giant wheel bearings and making it 4WD with DS fronts all round is facilitated by the fact you'd have 4 driveshaft ready hubs. Also, look they've retained the DS inboard disk brakes - that's bound to be better for off road: brakes can remain dry.

Just shows that the DS is the best car in the world even when it's just some bits of it on some other machine!!

KP · Unread post by KP » 04 Apr 2008, 13:59

The problem with the inboard brakes i imagine is the replacing of the discs themselves come the time and the pads, not as easy as normally would be, though i dont think any job on the varient i envisage would be other than oil services...

The discs and pads would'nt stay dry though as they are just slung under the vehicle, the only way to keep them dry would be to have a large, thick steel plate/box protecting them and sealing them in and some how ducting air in and out of the box to prevent them from over heating.
I guess it could be done with some light fins on the bodywork ducting air in from one side of the vehicle and the outward on the otherside and some form of small drain hole on the bottom?

Unread post by **aerodynamica** » 04 Apr 2008, 14:39

that sounds like a plan man 8)