1998 XSARA 1.9TD Crazy wobble / vibration

a4gom · Post by **a4gom** » 31 Mar 2008, 10:31

Set of for Newcastle the other day, after about 40 miles I slowed down to stop for some lunch and had a crazy wobble / vibration, similar to wheel about to fall off, gear stick bouncing all over place, really vicious.
Had some lunch and set of again, car ticks over fine and is not so bad up to about 15 mph although the gear stick can be seen to be pulsing. Hit 15 and vibration starts this remains the same through to about 50mph no matter what gear or part of rev range, after 50 it fades and after 60 its gone, its ok after that to well past 70mph.

So far I've more or less eliminated the engine as this never seems to miss a beat, I don't think its the gearbox as it happens in all gears. I've swapped the wheels around, back to front, supplemented with spare etc, it did appear a little less violent but is still quite bad. I did notice the rear rubber bush on the passenger side lower wishbone looked a bit worn when I was doing the tyres but there is no movement and it cannot be felt through the steering wheel or through the brakes so I'm sure its something more in board.
I've revved the engine whilst under the bonnet and engine doesn't seem to move excessively, I've also done the same putting load on in 1st and reverse with the handbrake on and it was the same not excessive. I've had a look at the engine mounts but not that thorough yet as its been raining since it happened and haven't had chance to get it in the air to have a proper look.
There is no identifiable noise related to it other than the noise caused by making the car judder.

I'm thinking engine mounting or drive shaft at the moment but would welcome and ideas, experience you may have of possibilities.

TIA
Andy

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 31 Mar 2008, 10:45

Andy,

Driveshaft very likely..

had this on a ZX once, the inner tri ax joint bearings went astray.. problem just as you describe.. worse on acceleration..

Get car on ramps and check for play on the inner joints..

John

a4gom · Post by **a4gom** » 31 Mar 2008, 11:22

cheers John will have it on a ramp this afternoon so hopefully I'll find something

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 31 Mar 2008, 13:23

sometimes a tyre will aquire a lump or buldge on the tread surface, one of my customers had this on her ZX it was quite a violent wobble, jack each wheel up and rotate with one hand on the tread face and you will feel if there is any unevenness
regards malcolm

a4gom · Post by **a4gom** » 31 Mar 2008, 18:09

Ok had the car on a ramp today:
Checked for play on all the driveshaft joints nothing!
Looked over all the engine mounts all still intact, no signs of splitting, wear or rotting! There is movement in them but no more than I would expect.
On the way to the ramp I tried playing around in the gears, free wheeling etc and the wobble only happens when in gear and under load (a little pulse can be found when not under load but nothing to worry about) the pulse starts ever so slightly as you set of and gets gradually worse and faster as you increase the speed until you get to about 60+ then its not noticable.
Had the car running on the ramp in gear with the wheels free and it was very difficult to make it replicate the wobble so this backs up the must be under load senario, the drive shafts etc all looked fine when runing on the ramp. The pulse seems to be related directly to the speed and makes the gear lever move forwards and backwards although the wobble / vibration causing itdoes seem to have some sidewards motion. I'm now thinking gearbox / final drive bearings etc?

Help

Post by **CitroJim** » 31 Mar 2008, 18:23

Don't discount the wheel bearings when looking at a problem like this.

I was practically given a really nice 205 once that had exactly the same problem. The owner was told it was the final drive and hence the giveaway to me.

I could not drive it at any more than 20mph without it shaking like it had square wheels.

It was the wheel bearings. They don't necessarily whine or groan when they go.

a4gom · Post by **a4gom** » 31 Mar 2008, 18:55

Surely there would be play to be felt if was the wheel bearings though?

Post by **CitroJim** » 31 Mar 2008, 21:09

a4gom wrote:Surely there would be play to be felt if was the wheel bearings though?

No, you'd be surprised. I could detect no play in the duff bearings when they were in-situ due to how the driveshafts nips them tightly together and it was only when I pulled the hubs apart that the play became apparant.

a4gom · Post by **a4gom** » 31 Mar 2008, 21:28

cheers i'll have a look at that next then.

a4gom · Post by **a4gom** » 01 Apr 2008, 09:42

Just another thought if it was the wheel bearing wouldn't you feel it through the steering?

Post by **elma** » 02 Apr 2008, 00:02

My car had the same problem,
no play detectable.
Turned out to be the o/s driveshaft.

a4gom · Post by **a4gom** » 02 Apr 2008, 08:52

elma wrote:My car had the same problem,
no play detectable.
Turned out to be the o/s driveshaft.

What was actually wrong with the driveshaft?
How did you identify this was the cause?

I'm still convinced it must be something like the inner joint on one of the shafts or the final drive as I am sure you would be able to feel something through the steering or brakes if it was at the wheel end but I will be spending a bit more time investigating this weekend.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 02 Apr 2008, 13:43

if it is the intermediate bearing on the O/S drive shaft you might not feel it throught the steering
regards malcolm

a4gom · Post by **a4gom** » 05 Apr 2008, 18:25

had a good look over the car today, pulled back the boots on the inner joints and the o/s one's definitely goosed. will get a recon from gsf on monday.
out of interest how will this come? will it have the intermediate bearing fitted?
to remove / fit presumably its just a matter of splitting the lower joint, the joint on the rack and undo the nut on the shaft through the hub? do you need to remove the bracket which carries the int' bearing and engine mount or does that stay insitu and the 2 bolts either side of the bearing release it?

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 06 Apr 2008, 01:46

yes the shaft should come with the int bearing,
and no you dont remove the bearing mount just undo and remove the two 11mm nuts which are on the gear box side of the mount, then once you have disconected all you mentioned drift against the coller on the shaft the same side the nuts were,

mind you put a container under the diff to collect about 1 liter of gear oil,

once the shaft is out you will find the two bolts with hocky stick shaped heads which retain the int bearing into the moutting, you need to re/fit these and the nuts with the hook ends of the bolt heads pointing outwards untill you have got the shaft back in place, then rotate the nut half a turn and pull it through so the bolt head comes into contact with the bearing, now do both nuts up this will pull the bearing right the way home
regards malcolm