Xantia 1.9TD wont start?

steviewonder7 · Unread post by **steviewonder7** » 11 Mar 2008, 18:25

Hi Folks,
Hope you can give me some advice here.
Today for the fisrt time in ownership (I've had the car over 2yrs) the Xant
let me down and would not start.The car brought me home the night before with no inclination that there would be trouble the next day.This afternoon got I in the the car to start her and all she would do is turn over spiritedly(plenty of juice in the 3month old battery).She just did not want to fire up.

Under the bonnet I ventured and could not find anything easy and obvious(are they ever?) to say 'ah ha' you little blighter.

The thing I tried that seemed to work was to compress the fuel priming bulb,which seemed a bit lack lustre in pressure.Upon doing this I tried starting the old girl and she spluttered into life.I duly went on my business of going to work (18 mile trip) without a hiccup.
I'm dreading the same thing is going to happen again later tonight when I attempt to leave work.

Would any kind soul give me some pointers to look out for some basic things to try.I have a niggling feeling in the back of my mind I have a fuel leak somewhere and therefore losing pressure somewhere???
Thanks in advance to your reply's
Stevie

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 11 Mar 2008, 19:35

From your description a fuel leak sound most likely, bear in mind that the system works under vacumn (the pump sucks fuel to itself) so any leaks prior to the pump won't leave a trace of fuel but when the car is left any leaks in the fuel pipe will allow air to enter and fuel to drain back to the tank.

I'd try pumping the primer bulb till its very firm whilst manipulating the fuel pipng to see whether you can induce the leak to manifest itself. The other places to check are the fuel return pipes running between the injectors and the primer bulb itself.

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 11 Mar 2008, 20:57

Its only the Bosch pumps which suffer from air problems from the leakoff pipes. Roto-Diesels just leak and smell. However most Xantias seem to have Bosch pumps.

Are the glowplugs OK? They often fail in sequence - and 1 down is barely detectable. 2 down and its difficult to start, 3 down and its virtually impossible. Cranking an engine with faulty plugs will produce loads of white unburnt fuel from the exhaust.

Otherwise it sounds like an air leak, letting air in and not fuel out. Check all the connections to see if any are loose and the priming bulb itself can perish.

steviewonder7 · Unread post by **steviewonder7** » 12 Mar 2008, 18:51

Thanks for your advice chaps.
I seem to have found the probable fuel leak.I looked at the car this morning and again nothing was obvious regarding fuel leaks,but there was a diesel aroma around the rubber fuel priming bulb.I started applying
pressure to the said bulb and when I twisted the bulb I found that diesel was leaking out of it,not badly though,but obviously enough for the fuel system to play up.

For the present moment,until I obtain a new priming bulb,Ive fitted a new jubilee clip which has done the trick.

Again thanks for the advice

steviewonder7 · Unread post by **steviewonder7** » 13 Mar 2008, 08:11

The fualt's back again

I've checked the area regarding fuel pipes/hoses up to the bosch pump...cant see anything wrong.
I feel perhaps I need to replace all the hoses up to the pump just so I can have piece of mind.What do you think?
Also where does the fuel hose exactly join the solid pipe coming from the fuel tank?Is it behind the engine by the bulkhead?I obviously need to look at this joint.
At the moment I can still drive the car after pumping the priming bulb,but how long is that going to last (until the fault fully devolpes I suppose)?

Any other ideas folks

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 13 Mar 2008, 08:41

Why not replace the last supply hose to the pump with a section of clear plastic and you can see if there is any air getting in.

Priming bulbs are cheap - and B&Q , Screwfix and others sell something looking remarkably similar for priming central heating systems for about the same price (£10)

Steel pipe can rust and let air in before fuel leaks out. The problem here is that there is no separate lift pump - so all the supply piping is under vacuum - and air gets in and fuel does not get out of the joints.

Check leakoffs and replace if they are hard (including the end cap) Your local factor will sell small diameter fuel tube which can be cut to length. A pair of long nosed pliers may save loads of dismantling

steviewonder7 · Unread post by **steviewonder7** » 13 Mar 2008, 13:44

Thanks for your suggestion Jeremy.It looks to me that everything in the engine bay is original equipment (on a 13yr old motor) therefore nothing has been replaced,so with this in mind I'm going to renew the leak off pipes and all the fuel hoses including the fuel priming bulb.
Let's see how far that gets me!
With ragards to replacing the fuel hoses with clear,white braided hoses,will the diesel fuel affect the hoses over a long period of time as petrol has been known to yellow and harden these types of hose?

Regards Steve

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 13 Mar 2008, 14:28

Seem to have a similar problem Stevie... 11 year old TD

Mine just does not want to know on a given morning, doesn't seem related to anything including :

Ratio of SVO to DERV
Ambient Temperature
Priming bulb
Length of time left without use

4 new Go plugs fitted to help, but haven't,,

9 times out of 10 it's fine..

John

steviewonder7 · Unread post by **steviewonder7** » 13 Mar 2008, 14:45

Hi Jgra,
This is the first time I've had this car ever fail to start up first time,suppose there's a first time for everything.

Iv'e been lucky so far.
I see you own a VFR**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] then.As soon as I get mine(VFR**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] 750 fl) on the road the better,It'll give the the old Xantia a rest.Shall be sharing journey's between the two of them.

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 13 Mar 2008, 14:49

yep re : VFR**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

My exhaust is rotten

£300 is the cheapest I can find.. woouold like to know if a 750 system would fit, so may email you a pic of it when I can remove it

bring on the summer..

I think, a bike and a TD xantia is a very useful combination

steviewonder7 · Unread post by **steviewonder7** » 13 Mar 2008, 16:14

Jgra,
willing and able to help re VFR**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] (sorry its slightly off topic).
Forgive me for my ignorance ,but you are likely to find more qualified answers from www.bikersoracle.com/VFR**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]/forum.

In the meantime I let you know ,if I what I intend to replace, fuel line wise etc, works and solves the problem with the Xantia.Not sure what to try next after that.

regards Steve

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 13 Mar 2008, 17:28

steviewonder7 wrote: mine(VFR**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] 750 fl)

I just got back from selling mine

I'll miss it but at least she's in good hands now. Can you believe it fitted into a Pug 106??? I was amazed, they guy drove down from Cheshire after taking out the seats. We stripped the sub-frame and front forks and it fitted right in!

Sorry for off-topic post but the VFR**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]'s are very worthy machines. I must get another some day, when funds allow.

steviewonder7 · Unread post by **steviewonder7** » 15 Mar 2008, 18:11

Almost read your post Mike and thought the guy put the VFR**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] engine in the pug engine bay and drove off home with a v4 in place.Anyway wouldn't that be novel and unique??
Anyway back to the problematic Xantia......I've found what I believe is the leak,in one of the most awkward places you could have.The citroen designer wants blooming shooting. The leak appears to be coming from a joining block,where the fuel feed and return pipes meet right under the brake valve on the bulkhead.I can just get a hand in there once I've removed the intercooler pipes.The leak appears to be dripping off the the return pipe.
Got to cut the existing flexible pipes off replace them and put new jubilee clips in place with one hand

Well its rain stops play for now ,will continue tommorrow all being well

regards Steve

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 15 Mar 2008, 19:46

steviewonder7 wrote: Got to cut the existing flexible pipes off replace them and put new jubilee clips in place with one hand

Good luck with that Steve

How about making it a bit easier on yourself by making the return flexible pipe much longer and making the new joint in a more accessible place?

I replaced the complete fuel lines on a Pug 205 GTi a while ago so I know exactly what you are up against

steviewonder7 · Unread post by **steviewonder7** » 16 Mar 2008, 17:12

Thanks for the suggestion citrojim.I managed to complete the job today being outside in the rain as well,not pleasant as many of you can appreciate.
Turns out that the return pipe and feed pipe are both some sort of slightly stiff plastic pipe,not what I was expecting.I was expecting solid steel(or thereabouts) pipe.Also turns out that the return pipe was green and a slightly smaller diameter pipe than the fuel feed pipe,which was white and a bugger to get the new flexible pipe on.
I used very hot water in the end to soften the new pipe and then fit it by pulling the existing pipe to be joined to.. down in the wheel arch,otherwise I wouldn't have got the new pipe/hose on

The old 'crimp' type hose clips were a pain to get off one handed,but it was manged.....I didnt know I could turn contortionist at my age.
Could I get the car to start after all this..no...

,still too much air in the system, so I reverted to (maybe not the ideal way) pulling the pipe/hose off at the exit of the priming bulb and filling up said hose with diesel to try and expel the air.The car eventually started

after this effort.Horray

Next thing to do is to leave it for a few hours go back to it and see how it starts.
That'll be another job off the 'to do' list.
Regards Steve