Zx 1.9td Volcane Speedo Wobble, Sticking/Juddering

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coopertron
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Zx 1.9td Volcane Speedo Wobble, Sticking/Juddering

Post by coopertron »

Hi guys,

Hoping someone might be able to advise about this one. I have a 1.9TD Volcane ZX.

I have had the dash out to change the bulbs, and now the speedo is juddering, and appears to be "sticking" ie when you stop the car, it still shows at 10mph for a while, and it is slow to react to the speed increase when you press the accelerator, and kind of "jump up and down in steps".

I am not 100% sure it was working perfectly before I "fiddled" as I only just bought the car, so it could be my doing :oops:

I have read about a notorious speedo wobble on forums, and this seems to point towards the cable being at fault.

Any ideas on this one?

Thanks for your help,

Regards,

Mark
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Post by deian »

Sounds like the cable is either not put in place properly behind the dash (assuming it was the mechanical speedo driven by a pinion in the final drive). Or the cable has started to split up inside it's outer cover.

What you can do it fiddle a bit more, go under the car to find out where the speed cable goes to (final drive), it's quite a simple thing on the drivers side of the final drive behind the engine, check that the mechanism is seated properly... if it isn't then try re-seating it, and close the bolt, failing that open that bolt, take it out, and turn it with your fingers to see how it feels, it should be clean (no oil) and smooth to turn obviously.

If there is lots of oil around the cog then it would be a good idea to find out where it came from too, incase it's a sign of something more serious.

But I would say it's not seated properly behind the dash.

Unless it's something more sinister... the actual finger on the front side of the speedo is a bit bent and catches... or the paper/sheet behind the finger has been replaced and isn't flat so catching the finger.

Anyway, welcome to the forum, show us your car.
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Post by coopertron »

Hi Dei,

Thank you for your help and advice, and thanks for the welcome!. I will get some pics of the old girl, once shes been cleaned up and some of the niggles sorted out. I do have some other queries I will be posting in due course.

Thanks for the advice re: underneath of car - I will probably check this out if I get no joy with the dash again. Will I be able to access with a jack and axle stands or wheel ramps?

I will elaborate on the problem and what I have done so far.

I have taken the binnacle out completley, and driven the car watching the speedo cable. The inner plastic rectangular shaped piece of plastic was moving round. It looked to me like perhaps this may be bent, which I would imagine would cause this problem, however I think it was relatively easy to move back and forth, so this might not mean anything.

Having spoken to the previous owner, he has confirmed that the car did not do this when he had it, so it does look like I have disturbed it when I took the dash out to change the bulbs.

When I am plugging the cable back in, I am shoving it hard, until it clicks into place. I have tried to push a bit more, but it is on as far as it will go.

I also tried squirting a small amount of WD-40 on the end as well, in case it was sticking there, but this made absolutely no difference whatsoever.

I also tried sticking a small screwdriver in the back of the speedo and turning that, and it did make the needle move, although it didn't work that well with a screwdriver, I might try a larger one, just to rule out a problem with the binnacle.

I will have a look and see if i can see the finger catching on the face, as this sounds like a likely candidate as well.

Regards,

Coopertron
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Post by deian »

Best way to get underneath is if you drive it onto ramps.

If you haven't got any, just jack it up and support it with axle stands.

I've not managed to get to the back of my dash myself, I need to fix my rev counter, I am just suggesting what I know about the car, i.e the theory not the hands on, so don't take my advice as accurate.

I am interested to know how you got your dash off.. did it come completely off? If so how? I tried before, but the speedo cable has no slack and I couldn't get my hands behind enough to unclip it.
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Post by coopertron »

Hi Dei,

I had a play today but the speedo is still the same. I stuffed some tissue in the back of the head, and then shoved the cable back in again, and I think this improved the wobbling slightly, but I can't be certain.

I also tried sticking a screwdriver in the back of the speedo head, and turning it, and the speedo appeared to flick up and down fairly easily, but I could not get it to stay constant, as I was finding it difficult to turn the screwdriver and hold the binnacle.

I am reasonably happy that the binnacle/head is working ok, I am leaning towards a new cable, but hope i don't need to buy the upper and lower, as that is going to be about £30 looking at GSF.

I think i'll call them on Mon.

With regards to getting the dash out, thats the (relatively) easy part. You need to take the radio and part of the centre console with the air vents in it, take the steering column shrouds off, and the fascia thing with the switches in.

Then you have (or should have) enough room to reach your hand up through the centre console to detach the speedo cable.

However, as I have just done, I don't recommend it as you might break it!

If only the tacho was broken, and the speedo was ok! doh.

Ah well.

Regards,

Mark
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Post by uncle buck »

The speedo needle on my ZX TD wobbles like a wobbly thing at a wobbly party! :lol:

When I'm doing 30 mph the needle is jumping between approx 23 & 37 ...the way I work it is that the number in the middle of the needle wobble is the speed you are going!

The wobble gets less the faster you go so at 70mph it is quite stable.

I believe a lot of ZX's suffer this problem....I think that it's down to the way the speedo cable is routed.

The cable comes from the back of the speedo then turns quite sharply to go across to the passenger side where it goes through the bulk head to to meet the 2nd half of the cable, then carries on to the gearbox speedo drive.

I have thought about trying to re-route the cable....to drill a hole in the bulk head somewhere behind the speedo so that the cable can take a less "Twist & Turns" route...I'm sure this is what causes the problem.....However that's as far as I have got with the problem...(Thinking about it) :)
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Post by DickieG »

Invariably a wobbly speedo is caused by the inner cable becoming caught on the outer cable and can be sorted by pulling out the inner cable and regreasing it.
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Post by coopertron »

Uncle Buck and DickieG - thanks for your responses. Thats sounds about right.

Presumably, as I have interfered with it, perhaps I have stretched it just that little bit too far or bent it slightly.

Uncle Buck - I noticed the same with the speedo - at higher speeds it seemed more stable. When I looked last night, I noticed the cable goes off towards the passenger side of the car quite sharply and thought this strange - french engineering eh!.

Anyhow, DickieG - you mention a good regreasing would likely sort the problem - presumably a new upper cable (and maybe lower cable) will sort the problem also?.

How easy is the cable to get to on the engine side? (bearing in mind I only have a jack or ramps at best....


Thanks again for your help guys, much appreciated - what a great forum!

Regards,

Coop
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Post by uncle buck »

Yeah, re greasing the cable will help but I think the problem will eventually come back.
As the cable is routed with a couple of quite tight turns the center cable (the drive cable) wears through the liner in the cable... this is when the wobble starts.
Re-routing the cable would help if the route could avoid sharp bends & follow a nice steady sweeping curve...That said a new top cable would probably solve the problem.
If the car were a LHD version the cable would take a nice straight route!

From what I recall I'm sure the Haynes recommends removing the dash to renew the top cable...there is probably a way to do it without going that far though.

The cable from the gearbox to the join is easy to get to as far as I can remember so that shouldn't be a problem to renew but I don't think the bottom cable will be causing the problem, I think the wobble is caused by the top cable wearing out due to silly way it's routed.
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Post by Gammy leg »

coopertron wrote:
I noticed the cable goes off towards the passenger side of the car quite sharply and thought this strange - french engineering eh!.


Coop

You have to remember that these were originally designed as LHD vehicles.

Gammy
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Post by deian »

Gammy leg wrote:
You have to remember that these were originally designed as LHD vehicles.

Gammy
Which explains everything.
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Post by citroenesque »

If it's any consolation both my ZX's - my current Volcane TD in particular - had/have wobbling speedos. I find I use my TomTom quite often and that gives a very accurate reading so it's not an issue at the moment, but the advice on this posting is interesting. Might try to fix the problem at the next 'service'...
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Post by coopertron »

Right everyone, an update on the proceedings so far.

I have replaced the upper cable, and this appears to have cured the wobble that was going on before. However, the sticking seems to still be there.

Basically when you stop the car, the speedo will still read say 10 mph. Eventually I think it returns to the rest postion but I am not sure as I reverse the car back onto the drive.

When you engage reverse, the speedo does return to the rest position at the bottom.

I dont think the problem is to do with the actual dash clock, as when I have had it out, and tried to simulate the cable by moving a screwdriver round in the back of the clock, the needle seemed to move easily enough, without any signs of sticking, which leads me to be believe there is a problem with the lower cable or where it connects on the gearbox.

Does anyone have any idea what the problem might be?
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Post by myglaren »

Wasn't a Citroen but a similar thing happened to one of my cars and the squared off end of the inner cable, where it engages the drive from the gearbox, had sheared off and it was just the cable ends catching that drove the speedo at all - very erratically.

Easy fix but getting the snapped off bit took a bit of doing - wound a long thin screw into it to withdraw it.
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Post by coopertron »

Hello again,

I reseated the cable, and it definitely clicked home with a good solid connection this time.

The wobble is gone, and the speedo seems to be working fine.

I noticed that it does seem to rest at 5 or 10 Mph anyway, my old alfa used to do this so that's not a problem.


Incidentally, the Outer sheath on new upper cable that I bought from GSF was far too long, and I have to cut a fair bit of it off, so that it would fit, which I found strange, but never mind.

The job is a bit of a b*gger as well, as the string I used to pull the new cable through snapped :cry:
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