2.1 TD Xantia

[h2ocooler]

Hi All
Posted before about a problem with the ignition on my car, was the ignition switch then, trouble is problems back.
Symptoms
Turn on ignition > battery light on but no other lights, indicators horn wipers work and the engine will turn over but wont start.
Changed the switch worked for a few days then stopped.
I stripped the old switch down and cleaned it all up (wasnt too bad) so all contacts are bright and clean, re fitted it > same, one of the red wires had some insulation cut when it was removed from the car and it happened to touch earth > all lights came on and she worked.
Now i have tried Bypassing the switch totally (hotwiring it) still cant get anything to work.
Checked all the fuses and they are ok, now totally stumped.
Rob

[CitroJim]

Hi Rob,

I suspect very much here that you've lost the power supply to the Injection Pump ECU. That'll really stop it dead in ints tracks.

A very common cause is corrosion and breaks in the wiring loom where it passes under the radiator at the front of the car. damp gets in here and causes all sorts of problems.

I've not got it to hand here but somewhere at home I have a 2.1TD wiring diagram for the pump ECU. I'll dig it out this evening. That way I can advise where to look for supplies around the ECU.

Is your coded keypad bursting into life when the ignition is turned on?

[h2ocooler]

Hi Jim
Got fed up with the keypad ages ago and did the trick of removing it when the car was running to lock the code in the ecu.
Nothing ignition related will work apart from the usual things that come on with the key in the AUX position. Engine will turn over but not even the heater light comes on.
Rob

[DickieG]

Have you tried plugging in the keypad in case it's reset?

[CitroJim]

Re-reading the original symptoms Rob, it sounds like a bad earth somewhere. I'd check the earth connections from the battery to the bodyshell and engine block as a first check. All the heavy earths are worth a check though.

To check that the pupm ECU is receiving power, the keypad is a good visual check to see if power is reaching the Injection Double Relay as the keypad is powered from the same supply so DickieG's suggestion is a useful one. If the keypad lights up on ignition on, you know something is getting there.

Now, to check the power feeds to the ECU, firstly check on F7 (20A, engine bay). this is the main unswitched supply (wire 30) to the ECU Injection Doulble Relay. It ends up on pin 11 of the relay.

The check Pin 2 of the relay. Here is where the ignition switched supply comes in on wire CC2B to both power the glowplug relay and half the Injection Double Relay to allow the main unswitched supply through. It opeates the relay coil between pins 2 and 10 (earth).

It is worth also checking you have voltage at the giant fuses in the engine bay fuse box. FA (60A) and FB (40A) supply the ignition switch. Fuse FD is also involved in the feed to the ECU.

The fact that you grounded a red wire on the ignition switch allowed everything to work also suggests there is an earthing problem. It may have made what I'd describe as a back-feed earth that allowed other parts to become live.

I still reckon you'll find the problem in the loom under the radiator if the main earths prove OK.

Hope that helps Rob. Shout if you need more help with this...

[reblack68]

That's what I would do next.

Have you checked the fuses under the bonnet?

[h2ocooler]

Right i have re fitted the keypad, working as it shoud, turn on the ignition switch RED led onm, enter the code GREEN led on hit the starter switch and it goes out, been winding the starter for a while and noticed there was the smell of diesel, kept on and got smoke from under the car (hole in the exhaust)

Checked all the fuses and they are ok, if i remove F7 for the injector pump with the ignition on the double relay next to the ECU clicks when i put the fuse back.

Used a meter and the fuses are all getting power too (Big main ones and F7) so its getting to them ok.

Its deffo not the ignition switch as i have put a 12v supply direct to the output side of the switch and still nothing.

What earths i can get to i have checked and they are good, dont have a pinout diagram for the ECU to check the power there.
Anyone got a VERY big hammer
Rob

[CitroJim]

That's looking promisiong Rob Smoke means there is some injection going on so supplies to the ECU look more or less intact.

No need for that big hammer just yet

It's not simply that the glowplugs are not heating is it? If they don't heat, you'll never start the engine...

[h2ocooler]

Hi Jim
I cant tell if the glow plugs are heating or not, the only life in the dash is the batt light, dont even get the oil warning light!
Now looks like the battery has had it too, flattebed it few days ago trying to get it going, had it on charge togay and it didnt last long before it was flat again, still got the booster pack that gives it a good whizz over!

[Xaccers]

Check the voltage after a full charge.
My 1.9's alternator is pretty much dead, and when the battery dies the console does some very strange things.

[h2ocooler]

Update:
Spent a bit of time on sunday having a look, decided to run a feed to the heater plugs to see if it would start, gave it 10 seconds and burst into life, no heater, rear screen, fuel guage, temp guage, rev counter etc, left it running for about 20 mins while i but the dash back together then all of a sudden it all started working, at the time i was putting the glove box back (i know there is nothing behind it but had to look anyway) so couldnt have been something i touched.
I did wonder if it could be a bad/damp connection that when the alternator had chance to give the battery a good boost was able to reconnect, or could it be the double relay at fault?
Rob

[steelcityuk]

Hi,

If your car has crimped on battery terminals it could be worth giving these the once over. It's a long shot but worth a quick look.

Steve.