Is it possible? Is it wise? Can it run on both? Is it a potential DIY job? Does being a turbo make a difference?
I know absolutely nothing about running an engine on LPG but the combination of Activa thirst and LPG price is interesting and tempting.
Running an Activa on LPG?
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CitroJim
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Running an Activa on LPG?
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
It is possible, i've looked into lpg in the past and it's possible. Obviusly there are two ways to do it, the cheap way where you spray the lpg downwind of the intake manifold or the expensive way: down the injectors (which would mean new injectors).
Cars with plastic manifolds don't tend to do well using the cheap way.
Being a turbo shouldn't make a big difference if you piggyback the fatory ecu and going down the sequential route.
It is also possible to do it yourself, but you would need to have it checked over by qualified installers to get a certificate if your insurance asks for one.
It is wise as you save money. And you can run on both if you do it the cheap way, but that means injecting once down the intake manifold, if it's plastic then it's not so good.
Basically, it's a yes from me, lpg is just petrol in gas form, it also has higher octane and burns cleaner. Go for it if you have the money, or if you have the patience to do it yourself.
Cars with plastic manifolds don't tend to do well using the cheap way.
Being a turbo shouldn't make a big difference if you piggyback the fatory ecu and going down the sequential route.
It is also possible to do it yourself, but you would need to have it checked over by qualified installers to get a certificate if your insurance asks for one.
It is wise as you save money. And you can run on both if you do it the cheap way, but that means injecting once down the intake manifold, if it's plastic then it's not so good.
Basically, it's a yes from me, lpg is just petrol in gas form, it also has higher octane and burns cleaner. Go for it if you have the money, or if you have the patience to do it yourself.
I read somewhere that the plastic manifolds can shatter if the tuning is done wrongly when first installed, obviously you gotta start somewhere.
it's just a concern I have, personally, I'd go the professional route and get it done sequentially, but thats gonna cost upwards of £1200. Where the easy way will cost £800+.
Citroenxm knows lpg conversions, he's done it on his XM v6, so maybe he will show up, otherwise PM him.
it's just a concern I have, personally, I'd go the professional route and get it done sequentially, but thats gonna cost upwards of £1200. Where the easy way will cost £800+.
Citroenxm knows lpg conversions, he's done it on his XM v6, so maybe he will show up, otherwise PM him.
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Ah, yes, sorry, I've got a diesel car. This probably applies to petrol engines?deian wrote:I read somewhere that the plastic manifolds can shatter if the tuning is done wrongly when first installed, obviously you gotta start somewhere.
Snap, though I think if you shop around it's cheaper. I don't know how much a certification cost (won't be cheap I bet and what if it fails?) but it's included in the pro-install. (Isn't certification an MOT requirement?)deian wrote:personally, I'd go the professional route and get it done sequentially
Yes I think some petrol cars have plastic manifolds, remember LPG can also be put on diesel engines too (though not done as often).
Certification can be had for about £40 that way. Not sure if it's needed for the MOT, I don't think so. But some insurance companies will need to see it for sure. Before getting any work done check with your insurer to see if they will cover. Some don't have any issues at all and don't need a certificate, but some do need a certificate and won't charge extra, and some will charge extra.
Certification can be had for about £40 that way. Not sure if it's needed for the MOT, I don't think so. But some insurance companies will need to see it for sure. Before getting any work done check with your insurer to see if they will cover. Some don't have any issues at all and don't need a certificate, but some do need a certificate and won't charge extra, and some will charge extra.
I used to do some LPG installation years and years ago, this was done sometimes through the inlet manifold but mostly throgh a plate on the carb, although I belive that now there is a gas injection system, this uses injectors in much the same way as petrol injection.
The older inlet manifold system will not work with a turbo charged engine but this may now be possible with the gas injection.
The plastic manifolds will shatter at the first sign of a backfire, this can very easaly happen with gas.
Certification, this is allways given out by the installer but is not needed for the MOT, or by most insurance companys, but some will insist.
When I worked on gas conversions you would fill up by simply connecting a regulator to a propane bottle strapped down in the boot, when empty you changed the bottle, as time passed this was deemed unsafe and a tank system was used and the steel tank has a life of 10 years, then it should be removed and re-tested or replaced. even now we hear of folk tellling us that gas is not safe, yet we carry 60+ litres of fuel around in a plastic box!!!!
The gas system does work but will cost for an injection system around £1400 + vat.
How much petrol will this buy??
Is it worth it??
How long will gas carry on being cheap??
Will it work on a turbo engine??
These are the questions that you need to find the answers to.
Regards
Slim.
The older inlet manifold system will not work with a turbo charged engine but this may now be possible with the gas injection.
The plastic manifolds will shatter at the first sign of a backfire, this can very easaly happen with gas.
Certification, this is allways given out by the installer but is not needed for the MOT, or by most insurance companys, but some will insist.
When I worked on gas conversions you would fill up by simply connecting a regulator to a propane bottle strapped down in the boot, when empty you changed the bottle, as time passed this was deemed unsafe and a tank system was used and the steel tank has a life of 10 years, then it should be removed and re-tested or replaced. even now we hear of folk tellling us that gas is not safe, yet we carry 60+ litres of fuel around in a plastic box!!!!
The gas system does work but will cost for an injection system around £1400 + vat.
How much petrol will this buy??
Is it worth it??
How long will gas carry on being cheap??
Will it work on a turbo engine??
These are the questions that you need to find the answers to.
Regards
Slim.
I totally agree with this viewpoint - an appealing idea in concept, moreslim123 wrote: The gas system does work but will cost for an injection system around £1400 + vat.
How much petrol will this buy??
Is it worth it??
How long will gas carry on being cheap??
Will it work on a turbo engine??
These are the questions that you need to find the answers to.
Regards
Slim.
hassle and uncertainty in implementation. I'm waiting for the gas price
to take a real hike, not only due to the cost of supply, but by the
incessant compound increase squeeze by GordonB
Andrew
I'm the "lucky" bidder for a 2.0i VSX Xantia on ebay a week or so back
and will report back on this when I've collected the thing and got my head
around the conversion though it's had the correct type of donut tank under
the boot floor rather than a ruddy great compressor type bottle taking up
the whole boot space...
I'm guessing it's got the air intake variety of fuel feed!!
I'm wondering about swapping it to an Activa too!! I swear when I got a bit
carried away this evening the fuel needle dropped visibly!!
Andrew
and will report back on this when I've collected the thing and got my head
around the conversion though it's had the correct type of donut tank under
the boot floor rather than a ruddy great compressor type bottle taking up
the whole boot space...
I'm guessing it's got the air intake variety of fuel feed!!
I'm wondering about swapping it to an Activa too!! I swear when I got a bit
carried away this evening the fuel needle dropped visibly!!
Andrew
Last edited by andmcit on 30 Dec 2007, 23:47, edited 1 time in total.
You're not wrong Anders.
The problem though is the simple fact that the exchequer is being VERY
greedy piling additional rises in duty (with more to come in the new year)
on top of the petrol/diesel without allowing the additional windfall revenue
gained by the rise in crude oil £ generating MORE VAT returns on their
usual 'take' already.
This current government is an inspiration to crooks, rogues, estate agents
and car salesmen taking new dodges to a new art of slight of hand that
accountants and lawyers would also be proud of...
So, yes LPG is expensive, BUT unleaded is still double it's price!!
Andrew
The problem though is the simple fact that the exchequer is being VERY
greedy piling additional rises in duty (with more to come in the new year)
on top of the petrol/diesel without allowing the additional windfall revenue
gained by the rise in crude oil £ generating MORE VAT returns on their
usual 'take' already.
This current government is an inspiration to crooks, rogues, estate agents
and car salesmen taking new dodges to a new art of slight of hand that
accountants and lawyers would also be proud of...
So, yes LPG is expensive, BUT unleaded is still double it's price!!
Andrew
Last edited by andmcit on 30 Dec 2007, 23:46, edited 1 time in total.
I've finally collected my latest purchase; a 2.0i 8v Xantia VSX with LPG
which may need some engine surgery, but to be honest, I'm not sure yet
and it was priced/bought as spares or repair. It was worth a punt as it's a
very attractive car in a nice blue grey metallic having ABS, and it's quite
an early one being an L plate with FDV and bonnet chevrons.
The car runs well at the moment but the seller believed it's got a crock
HG and there is some mayo in the rocker cover cap although this looks to
me like the usual condensation due to short/cold running. The oil and
water appear fine although it seems as though there's a good day/bad
day scenario with problems encountered with back pressure in the water
- more on this I guess when I have a bit more time on the car. Everything
has just had a thorough service with all the spheres renewed and the car
appears to be in very good order!!
The LPG installation is quite interesting and done to a very high standard
being well executed and thoughtful. The filler neck is on the driver's rear
bumper in the black insert with a decent quality screw cover that's spring
loaded. The tank is quite a deep donut under the boot floor instead of the
spare though there is a spare with the jack in the boot though obviously
this can be removed far easier than a bloody great permanent torpedo
in the boot that is usually found on most cars.
The exchanger is situated on the front cross member alongside the front
hydractive sphere and just below the FDV - it get's a bit busy in this spot
on a good day anyway. The gas then runs to the rocker cover that has a
mini manifold feeding individual pipes to each separate branch on the
usual but modified plastic manifold. The brain/box of tricks to control the
normal fuel/ignition sits neatly at the side of the battery tray and the
toggle switch to select petrol/lpg sits just below the wiper switches in
place of one of the normal blanks. I've not found a tank dial for contents
range yet but haven't looked that closely.
The thing that's got me pondering this car at the moment is the chance
I may have to dismantle the head to change the gasket. This doesn't
normally phase me but splitting the gas feeds off the actual head does!
Anyone know if this can simply be undone allowing the gas the escape
atmospherically or is it seen as über nasty like AC gas? I won't be
touching anything upwind of the exchanger where it will obviously be
liquid.
All the best,
Andrew
which may need some engine surgery, but to be honest, I'm not sure yet
and it was priced/bought as spares or repair. It was worth a punt as it's a
very attractive car in a nice blue grey metallic having ABS, and it's quite
an early one being an L plate with FDV and bonnet chevrons.
The car runs well at the moment but the seller believed it's got a crock
HG and there is some mayo in the rocker cover cap although this looks to
me like the usual condensation due to short/cold running. The oil and
water appear fine although it seems as though there's a good day/bad
day scenario with problems encountered with back pressure in the water
- more on this I guess when I have a bit more time on the car. Everything
has just had a thorough service with all the spheres renewed and the car
appears to be in very good order!!
The LPG installation is quite interesting and done to a very high standard
being well executed and thoughtful. The filler neck is on the driver's rear
bumper in the black insert with a decent quality screw cover that's spring
loaded. The tank is quite a deep donut under the boot floor instead of the
spare though there is a spare with the jack in the boot though obviously
this can be removed far easier than a bloody great permanent torpedo
in the boot that is usually found on most cars.
The exchanger is situated on the front cross member alongside the front
hydractive sphere and just below the FDV - it get's a bit busy in this spot
on a good day anyway. The gas then runs to the rocker cover that has a
mini manifold feeding individual pipes to each separate branch on the
usual but modified plastic manifold. The brain/box of tricks to control the
normal fuel/ignition sits neatly at the side of the battery tray and the
toggle switch to select petrol/lpg sits just below the wiper switches in
place of one of the normal blanks. I've not found a tank dial for contents
range yet but haven't looked that closely.
The thing that's got me pondering this car at the moment is the chance
I may have to dismantle the head to change the gasket. This doesn't
normally phase me but splitting the gas feeds off the actual head does!
Anyone know if this can simply be undone allowing the gas the escape
atmospherically or is it seen as über nasty like AC gas? I won't be
touching anything upwind of the exchanger where it will obviously be
liquid.
All the best,
Andrew