Advantage on Hydropneumatic on UK rough roads.
Moderator: RichardW
Advantage on Hydropneumatic on UK rough roads.
On the UK's broken roads, (very rough around Leeds and Bradford) does Hydropneumatic suspension (i.e. C5 not H3+, but the normal one without sport mode) offer a more reliable ride.
What is there to wear out with constant hammering on roughish roads. How does this compare with, say Xsara suspension?
I haven't had to replace any suspension components in my Xsara (27k) yet, but Dad's 206 at the same age/mileage had consumed 2 shockers and drop links on both sides.
Just considering the advantages and disadvantages of a C5.
Ben
What is there to wear out with constant hammering on roughish roads. How does this compare with, say Xsara suspension?
I haven't had to replace any suspension components in my Xsara (27k) yet, but Dad's 206 at the same age/mileage had consumed 2 shockers and drop links on both sides.
Just considering the advantages and disadvantages of a C5.
Ben
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Any of the hydropneumatic Citroens will give long and reliable service providing the system is looked after. Neglect leads to very expensive remedial work. They need a change of fluid and a cleaning of the filters every 45000 miles or two/three year intervals. Spheres will probably need changing or regassing every three to four years. Do all of that and the ride will stay as good as when the vehicle was new. Although it sounds a lot of work, for a DIY owner we are talking not much more than £100. The great bonus for me, as a caravanner is that I can hang the van on the tow ball and the suspension rises to a level aspect regardless of the additional weight.
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Remember thought the C5 will go 125,000miles/5 years before needing any major maintenance performing on its suspension. Well at least according to Citroen's advertising blurb.
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I agree with John.
The most expensive car to maintain is the one that in its early life wasn't!!
Remeber the BX slogan? Loves driving - Hates garages !! So people gave them an annual Oil Change, didn't touch the LHM for years & so on. Look at those cars today; suspensions giving grief as are all things hydraulic, motors filing up their breathing systems with pollutants like a chronic smoker with emphasyma and cooling systems going rotten due to not changing the coolant. The cars that have done the big mileage at minimal cost are in the main those owner serviced and regularly.
I have had hydraulic Cits since 1984 and have subjected them to some fairly severe treatment. Pulling trees out of the ground, collecting firewood in winter (fits about half a ton in the boot if the lid's left open <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> ) towing large trees around the property, towing a half cabin cruiser boat, a caravan & a trailer with a 2 ton capacity are just some of the tasks done with my 1979 CX C-matic. Given a wash & sweep out, we then go to weddings, funerals & day trips....I do all my own servicing though; and regularly. Rough roads? Since owning a hydraulic Citroen, I've never found one <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Oh by the way; I don't know what mileage this CX has done, but my other two are over 500,000 klms & still going; pity people keep wrecking their cars by running into them though. <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
Alan S
Remember thought the C5 will go 125,000miles/5 years before needing any major maintenance performing on its suspension. Well at least according to Citroen's advertising blurb.
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I agree with John.
The most expensive car to maintain is the one that in its early life wasn't!!
Remeber the BX slogan? Loves driving - Hates garages !! So people gave them an annual Oil Change, didn't touch the LHM for years & so on. Look at those cars today; suspensions giving grief as are all things hydraulic, motors filing up their breathing systems with pollutants like a chronic smoker with emphasyma and cooling systems going rotten due to not changing the coolant. The cars that have done the big mileage at minimal cost are in the main those owner serviced and regularly.
I have had hydraulic Cits since 1984 and have subjected them to some fairly severe treatment. Pulling trees out of the ground, collecting firewood in winter (fits about half a ton in the boot if the lid's left open <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> ) towing large trees around the property, towing a half cabin cruiser boat, a caravan & a trailer with a 2 ton capacity are just some of the tasks done with my 1979 CX C-matic. Given a wash & sweep out, we then go to weddings, funerals & day trips....I do all my own servicing though; and regularly. Rough roads? Since owning a hydraulic Citroen, I've never found one <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Oh by the way; I don't know what mileage this CX has done, but my other two are over 500,000 klms & still going; pity people keep wrecking their cars by running into them though. <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
Alan S
I would imagine all the usual mechanical bits just like any suspension.
Upper & lower control arms, ball joints etc, but I can't see any reason they should wear more with a hydraulic suspension than with any other. I would suggest that Citroen *may* beef up these parts in comparison to ordinary suspensions due to the ability to hit bigger bumps with less reaction.
Alan S
Upper & lower control arms, ball joints etc, but I can't see any reason they should wear more with a hydraulic suspension than with any other. I would suggest that Citroen *may* beef up these parts in comparison to ordinary suspensions due to the ability to hit bigger bumps with less reaction.
Alan S
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I wouldn't believe Citroen's advertising blurb about the C5 going for five years before any suspension maintenance is due, any more more than I believe them when they say my daughter's new HDI Xsara will go for 12.5K miles before an oil and filter change. Of course, Citroen are not the only 'fibbers' - all the manufactures say similar things. It keeps the fleet managers happy - but they get rid of their vehicles at the end of three years.
I think the C5 has (like all hydro suspended Citroens), solenoid valves controlling the distribution of fluids according to information fed to it via ECU's. These are still moving parts and it still needs a pump to shift fluid around. Citroen must have put some money into this car if they guarantee the hydro-system for 5 years/100,000 miles before servicing is needed. I think if I owned one I would treat it like any other XM, CX or Xantia and apply the same service conditions. I bet that if the C5 system does 'go south' after five years it will cost more to repair than the earlier cars.
Doc
Doc
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Bencowell
Best to leave semi-synthetic in up to the 12.5k service to allow the engine to fully run in. No harm in changing the oil early, especially on a turbo'd engine. Don't forget to fit a genuine Cit filter to keep your warranty.
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Youth and talent are no match for age and treachery.......
Edited by - Dave Bamber on 18 Jan 2003 19:50:47
Best to leave semi-synthetic in up to the 12.5k service to allow the engine to fully run in. No harm in changing the oil early, especially on a turbo'd engine. Don't forget to fit a genuine Cit filter to keep your warranty.
Berlingo HDI Wicked<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>Red
Youth and talent are no match for age and treachery.......
Edited by - Dave Bamber on 18 Jan 2003 19:50:47
There are some informations about C5 above, some correct, some not, so I'll write something about it.
There IS an accumulator sphere in the BHI unit. Unlike other spheres, this one seems to be rechargable, as there's a screw on it. On suspension spheres there's no screw - hole on the top of the sphere is welded.
About spheres lasting forever ... hmm, we'll see. I don't believe it.
There are no mechanical height correctors, but there are height sensors and a lot of wires. Problems are to be expected. I already noticed one with incorrect rear height on the street. Anti-sink valves are not needed, because of electrovalves in the BHI unit.
About the wearing parts, the rear suspension seems to be very similar to that in Xantia, so problems with arm bearings are to be expected. Due to the construction of the arms, bearings are under aprox 3 times higher load than is the load supported by the wheel. The construction was similar on AX, ZX and Xsara also, but it's abandoned on C3 and P307 (and probably on C4). Finally.
On the non-hydractive models, roll-bars have to take the whole rolling force when cornering (on the cars with conventional suspension only about a half - the other half is taken by springs), because left and right cylinders are hydrulically connected, so drop-link joints wear quicker. Situation is slightly better on hydractive models, because left and right cylinders are disconnected in the hard mode.
For the same reason, roll-bars on citroen vehicles with hydropneumatic suspension are thicker than on similar vehicles with conventional suspension. It affects ride confort on the bumpy road, especially when spheres are low on the pressure.
There IS an accumulator sphere in the BHI unit. Unlike other spheres, this one seems to be rechargable, as there's a screw on it. On suspension spheres there's no screw - hole on the top of the sphere is welded.
About spheres lasting forever ... hmm, we'll see. I don't believe it.
There are no mechanical height correctors, but there are height sensors and a lot of wires. Problems are to be expected. I already noticed one with incorrect rear height on the street. Anti-sink valves are not needed, because of electrovalves in the BHI unit.
About the wearing parts, the rear suspension seems to be very similar to that in Xantia, so problems with arm bearings are to be expected. Due to the construction of the arms, bearings are under aprox 3 times higher load than is the load supported by the wheel. The construction was similar on AX, ZX and Xsara also, but it's abandoned on C3 and P307 (and probably on C4). Finally.
On the non-hydractive models, roll-bars have to take the whole rolling force when cornering (on the cars with conventional suspension only about a half - the other half is taken by springs), because left and right cylinders are hydrulically connected, so drop-link joints wear quicker. Situation is slightly better on hydractive models, because left and right cylinders are disconnected in the hard mode.
For the same reason, roll-bars on citroen vehicles with hydropneumatic suspension are thicker than on similar vehicles with conventional suspension. It affects ride confort on the bumpy road, especially when spheres are low on the pressure.