Yes, another Xantia suspension query..

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XantiaMan
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Yes, another Xantia suspension query..

Post by XantiaMan »

I've had my Xantia about 3 weeks now and its grown on me big time. Supremely comfortable, economical and so much better than a dull Mondeo.

Having never had a hydronuematic car before its suspension behaviour is all new to me, but a couple of things bug me, here are the basics.

When you start it up from cold overnight it takes about 7 seconds for the stop light to go out, after this the front rises first followed by the back - normal?

The back end to me never seems high enough but the level on the sills is spot on, and it could just be the shape of the arches fooling my eye (fronts are much higher)

After leaving the car for say 10-15 mins, the back had dropped a bit, front stays the same, takes about 2-3 seconds for the stop light to go out -?

Leaving the car for a few hours or longer, the front end does start ti sink slightly, It's more noticable in the morning, the car sits level, but much much lower than when you first switch it off.

With engine off, get out the car and push on the back, it will lower slightly, then rise, then back down again, from what i've read, this means its all ok here.

The ride quality is excellent, the level indicator is above the maximum, and fluid although not bright green, is still green.. done a few years ago according to service history. There is also a reciept for a RR sphere but i cant see anymore, the previous owner did say its had spheres at least once since they had it from 2001.

The accumolator does not click that often, no more than every couple of mins, even when fully raised. I've done citreobics and its since then i've noticed the front end sinking more?! :?

The problem is i dont know enough about my suspension to say if what it does is normal, just wear and tear or a sign of something needing replacing.

Any advice welcomed.

Gareth
2003 Ford Mondeo ST220
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Post by Peter.N. »

Hi Gareth

Before I read all of your post I was going to say 'general hydraulic system wear' but when you said that the regulator only clicks every couple of minutes that would seem to indicate the opposite. I wonder how long it is since the LHM was changed and the filters cleaned? that would be your first port of call. Every hydropnumatic car I have owned has different characteristics, some rising immediatly, some not, some staying up all night and some dropping almost instantly. Providing they drive OK I dont usually worry. 7 seconds doesn't seem long for it to pressure up, but cleaning the system and renewing the LHM might improve it.
philhoward

Post by philhoward »

I'd say treat it to a Hydroflush and fliter clean - it can do no harm and as Peter says, each car behaves differently and also can recover differently post Hydroflush as well.

It does sound like the main circuit is fine if the stop light goes out that quick AND you only get a tick every minute or so - could possibly be a slight issue with the anti-sink feature (badly named, IMHO).
XantiaMan
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Post by XantiaMan »

philhoward wrote:I'd say treat it to a Hydroflush and fliter clean - it can do no harm and as Peter says, each car behaves differently and also can recover differently post Hydroflush as well.

It does sound like the main circuit is fine if the stop light goes out that quick AND you only get a tick every minute or so - could possibly be a slight issue with the anti-sink feature (badly named, IMHO).
Yes i am beginning to think along those lines, acc sphere and 'anti-sink' sphere being suspect but not serious enough at this stage to have cause for concern. I like my cars to be spot mechanically and it really bugs me if something isnt right.

Is there a how to guide for hydro flush? And will it really make much difference if mine is basically ok?
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Mandrake
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Re: Yes, another Xantia suspension query..

Post by Mandrake »

Apart from one thing, everything here sounds perfectly normal and healthy to me.... I'll address all the points though to help familiarize you with the suspension...
I've had my Xantia about 3 weeks now and its grown on me big time. Supremely comfortable, economical and so much better than a dull Mondeo.

Having never had a hydronuematic car before its suspension behaviour is all new to me, but a couple of things bug me, here are the basics.

When you start it up from cold overnight it takes about 7 seconds for the stop light to go out, after this the front rises first followed by the back - normal?
7 seconds is actually very good - the best I've ever had mine after overnight standing is 6 seconds. The accumulator sphere is probably in good condition based on this. Anything under about 10 seconds is perfectly fine.

Lifting at the front before the rear is a bit unusual though - unless the car has a heavy load in the boot it will normally lift at the rear first, since it requires less pressure to lift the rear. Not necessarily something to worry about, it could be something as simple as a sticky height corrector linkage at the rear.
The back end to me never seems high enough but the level on the sills is spot on, and it could just be the shape of the arches fooling my eye (fronts are much higher)
Yes, it can be visually deceptive if you're used to cars that have identical front and rear wheel arches.

At the rear there is no gap between the top sill and the tyre at normal height - they're pretty much in line with each other. At the front you can fit a clenched fist between the sill and the tyre. Obviously this is a very approximate guide and there are accurate ways to measure it if you wish. (It's been discussed quite recently on the forum) But the main point is the visual gap should not be the same front and rear at all.
After leaving the car for say 10-15 mins, the back had dropped a bit, front stays the same, takes about 2-3 seconds for the stop light to go out -?
Define "a bit". If its only dropped an inch or so this all sounds perfectly fine to me, as does the 2-3 seconds.
Leaving the car for a few hours or longer, the front end does start ti sink slightly, It's more noticable in the morning, the car sits level, but much much lower than when you first switch it off.
Sounds normal, assuming it isn't going right down to the bump stops. Mine drops a couple of inches at both ends over night. Ironically if the accumulator sphere is good it will actually drop more overnight than if it is bad. I won't go into the details of why though ;)

How long does it take to finish lifting ? Between 20-30 seconds from engine started to reaching normal ride height is normal.
With engine off, get out the car and push on the back, it will lower slightly, then rise, then back down again, from what i've read, this means its all ok here.
You mean it will lift you if you sit on it ? Yep sounds good, that means the rear suspension has a decent amount of gas in the spheres, and the accumulator sphere has enough pressure to lift you once with the engine off - primarily this is a test of the accumulator sphere.
The ride quality is excellent, the level indicator is above the maximum, and fluid although not bright green, is still green..
Just in case you're not aware - the level is checked with the suspension set to the maximum height position, with the engine running, and checked about 30 seconds after the car seems to have stopped rising. The orange disc should be between the two lines.

At normal ride height the gauge will always be pinned to the top.
done a few years ago according to service history. There is also a reciept for a RR sphere but i cant see anymore, the previous owner did say its had spheres at least once since they had it from 2001.

The accumolator does not click that often, no more than every couple of mins, even when fully raised.
Once again, 2 minutes between clicks is excellent - it shows that both the accumulator sphere is ok, and the system doesn't have any unusual leakage.
I've done citreobics and its since then i've noticed the front end sinking more?! :?
Sinking more when ? When you leave it overnight ? Could be, yes, if the front struts were a bit sticky (binding) then it will tend to stay up longer than if the are operating more smoothly and/or are well lubricated.
The problem is i dont know enough about my suspension to say if what it does is normal, just wear and tear or a sign of something needing replacing.
Apart from the rear lifting slowly your message is a checklist of everything working fine :)

The fact that the rear drops relatively soon and takes longer than the front to lift suggests that the anti-sink sphere MAY need replacing. Unfortunately out of all the spheres its the hardest one to determine whether it actually does need replacing or not, as it has relatively little visible effect on the functioning of the car...

Regards,
Simon
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
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XantiaMan
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Post by XantiaMan »

Thanks for the comprehensive reply!
7 seconds is actually very good - the best I've ever had mine after overnight standing is 6 seconds. The accumulator sphere is probably in good condition based on this. Anything under about 10 seconds is perfectly fine.
Ok thats good then. I'm happy to wait whilst the suspension rises with the engine cold, gives it a chance to get the oil flowing round the engine :P, its only when i'm late for work in the morning its a pain, guess i'll have to leave 10 seconds earlier!
Lifting at the front before the rear is a bit unusual though - unless the car has a heavy load in the boot it will normally lift at the rear first, since it requires less pressure to lift the rear. Not necessarily something to worry about, it could be something as simple as a sticky height corrector linkage at the rear.
This was when i was doing citroebics not during 'normal' operation. Normally, back end up followed by the front.
Define "a bit". If its only dropped an inch or so this all sounds perfectly fine to me, as does the 2-3 seconds
A bit, meaning the top of the tyre is level with the wheelarch at the back.
Sounds normal, assuming it isn't going right down to the bump stops. Mine drops a couple of inches at both ends over night. Ironically if the accumulator sphere is good it will actually drop more overnight than if it is bad. I won't go into the details of why though
Nah, its not going no-where near the bump stops, i just noticed that it was lower than what i've noticed before overnight, and obviously this 'anti-sink' doesnt work as well as its namesake..
You mean it will lift you if you sit on it ? Yep sounds good, that means the rear suspension has a decent amount of gas in the spheres, and the accumulator sphere has enough pressure to lift you once with the engine off - primarily this is a test of the accumulator sphere
Yep, i leant on it when i filled up yesterday after switching the engine off for a couple of minutes and the back end did go up before it sank back to normal 'engine off' level.
Just in case you're not aware - the level is checked with the suspension set to the maximum height position, with the engine running, and checked about 30 seconds after the car seems to have stopped rising. The orange disc should be between the two lines.
The level is always above the top line when suspension is in lowest position, normal or maximum height, possibly overfilled?

Once again, 2 minutes between clicks is excellent - it shows that both the accumulator sphere is ok, and the system doesn't have any unusual leakage.
2 mins approx, sometimes i notice it clicking more often than 2 minutes but as an average, about 2!

Thanks again!
2003 Ford Mondeo ST220
2002 Ford Fiesta Zetec S
2001 Ford Puma 1.7 VCT
2008 Ford Transit Mk7
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