Veggie compatability

john alexander · Post by **john alexander** » 20 Jul 2007, 17:50

Can anyone shine some light. I have a 2000 2litre hdi 406. I understand that it cant run on SVO due to the weak pump at the tank but it must be possible to run a diesel veggie mix to thin it down. Has anyone tried and what ratio of mix works.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 21 Jul 2007, 20:14

HDI's are infameously expensive to repair, if the high pressure pump gives up the ghost. Thats the real problem.

The lift pump is not that expensive as its a low pressure type, and lots of aftermarket units may drop in as a direct replacement.

I would not risc my HDI with any experiments

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 22 Jul 2007, 07:21

General thinking is any SVO + direct injection = bad news.
Sell your car and get one slightly older with a XUD9TE engine and you'll be laughing.

Alternatively, play around with sulphuric acid and turn the SVO into nasty bio diesel and run on that.

Post by **CitroJim** » 22 Jul 2007, 07:42

Xac wrote:Alternatively, play around with sulphuric acid and turn the SVO into nasty bio diesel and run on that.

Not sulphuric acid. The process uses caustic soda and methanol. Two very nasty chemicals indeed. The only plus-side is that you'll never need to buy another bar of soap as soap is a by-product of the bio-diesel process

nick · Post by **nick** » 22 Jul 2007, 11:47

There are companies which claim to be able to modify HDi's to run on veg oil eg,
http://www.smartveg.com/faqs/faqs.php?showid=30

weety · Post by **weety** » 22 Jul 2007, 12:55

nick wrote:There are companies which claim to be able to modify HDi's to run on veg oil eg,
http://www.smartveg.com/faqs/faqs.php?showid=30

trouble is there arent many people running on veggy with HDI's (yet) so there isnt a lot of knowledge about what may go wrong long term

whereas many many people have run XUD9's for many thousands of miles without problems

my vote is also to sell it and buy a slightly older car that you can run with minimal modification on a single tank conversion

Post by **CitroJim** » 22 Jul 2007, 13:26

It can only be a matter of time before four things happen...

1. Manufacturers wll market a diesel that will run on SVO with no problems trumpeting it, no doubt, as a very "green" car. They'll spin it for all it is worth.

2. Aftermarket kits will be produced to allow all modern diesels to run on the stuff.

3. Lucas will produce a kit of parts to allow their pumps to run SVO.

4. Supermarket forecourts will have Veggie Oil pumps. One supermarket will perhaps offer three: "Value", "As Good as the Leading Brand" and "Finest".

Seriously, it seems to me to be the way to go, even if say, PSA revert to the XUD with a mechanical Bosch pump to make it happen. At least those fields of yellow that make some of us sneeze in the spring will be growing something useful.

howiedean · Post by **howiedean** » 22 Jul 2007, 14:07

weety wrote:
nick wrote:There are companies which claim to be able to modify HDi's to run on veg oil eg,
http://www.smartveg.com/faqs/faqs.php?showid=30
trouble is there arent many people running on veggy with HDI's (yet) so there isnt a lot of knowledge about what may go wrong long term

whereas many many people have run XUD9's for many thousands of miles without problems

my vote is also to sell it and buy a slightly older car that you can run with minimal modification on a single tank conversion

Yes your right, I did this but got sick of noisey starts and reduced power (1.9 td). Two neighbours said my car sounded like a bag of spanners

. I would like to use biofuel but no chance in a HDI, I might locate some proper biodiesel though and give that a shot.
Biofuel, veg oil is too thick I tried this with my previous xantia HDI and the bloody stuff wouldnt even pump from the tank (low pressure pump).

I do know someone who uses biofuel in a 306 HDI at 50% mix. He has to mix the fuel before it goes in the tank otherwise the thick stuff sinks to the bottom of the tank and it wont pump out then.

Regards

weety · Post by **weety** » 22 Jul 2007, 14:09

citrojim wrote:It can only be a matter of time before four things happen...

1. Manufacturers wll market a diesel that will run on SVO with no problems trumpeting it, no doubt, as a very "green" car. They'll spin it for all it is worth.

elsbett produced an engine donkeys years ago.....cant see manufacturers wanting to do it as (i understand it) they moved to common rail/hdi to reduce emissions in accordance with eu guidelines

2. Aftermarket kits will be produced to allow all modern diesels to run on the stuff.

kits are available (or you can just make your own) but no kit manufacturer would ever give you a gurantee it wouldnt damage your car

3. Lucas will produce a kit of parts to allow their pumps to run SVO.

some people have rebuilt lucas pumps so it is possible (if i recall the problem is shaft lubrication with cold thick veggy unable to travel quickly enough).

4. Supermarket forecourts will have Veggie Oil pumps. One supermarket will perhaps offer three: "Value", "As Good as the Leading Brand" and "Finest".

i can see fuel stations offering a veggy pump (probably next to their lpg one) but they would have to tax the fuel as above the exemption so their only customers would be extreme high usuage (above their own personal limit)

Seriously, it seems to me to be the way to go, even if say, PSA revert to the XUD with a mechanical Bosch pump to make it happen. At least those fields of yellow that make some of us sneeze in the spring will be growing something useful.

we should be allright for years to come...last xantia with an xud 9 rolled of the line in about 99.....they last twenty years anyway so i think we dont need to worry until the mid 2020's

howiedean · Post by **howiedean** » 22 Jul 2007, 14:42

Regarding the Mechanical pumps. I'm sure there is an outfit in brazil that is producing modern engines that use a mechanical pump. I read that some people have been retrofitting them into landies as theyare a similar size to a TD5 but without all the electronics.

Regards

john alexander · Post by **john alexander** » 22 Jul 2007, 16:56

I reasearched around the web and the general feel was that a blend would be ok and to increase it till it starts to run off then cut it back. Having now seen your responses I'm now tempted to hang fire.

But before I got your replies I put a 14% mix in and so far covered 100 miles problem free. Its a 650 mile tank so if its sank i'm not safe yet but nothing ventured nothing gained.

The older car was where I came from and opted for the 406 for the safety of the new baby so I'll keep you's informed and if it goes well then i've saved £100 anually if not then

weety · Post by **weety** » 22 Jul 2007, 20:09

john alexander wrote:I reasearched around the web and the general feel was that a blend would be ok and to increase it till it starts to run off then cut it back. Having now seen your responses I'm now tempted to hang fire.

But before I got your replies I put a 14% mix in and so far covered 100 miles problem free. Its a 650 mile tank so if its sank i'm not safe yet but nothing ventured nothing gained.

The older car was where I came from and opted for the 406 for the safety of the new baby so I'll keep you's informed and if it goes well then i've saved £100 anually if not then

the blend advice is for a single tank XUD9 conversion i cant see how you could get away without doing (at a minimum) a twin tank conversion with the second tank having an external fuel lift pump

James.UK · Post by **James.UK** » 24 Jul 2007, 01:48

Howie.

My ZX starts the same, runs better, and is quieter.. I have no complaints or problems whatsoever when using 100% veg oil in my car..

If the car starts to play up on starting when the weather cools off, then I will reduce the mixture to suit conditions..

Did I mention that I LOVE my ZX 1.9D auto...

$\:D/$ ..
.

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 24 Jul 2007, 22:29

I thought that the problem with veg oil in an HDi wasn't the pump, but the sensors measuring the viscosity of the fuel, not liking the thickness of SVO - or am I way out? I'm sure I read it somewhere....

weety · Post by **weety** » 24 Jul 2007, 22:56

LeeDJC wrote:I thought that the problem with veg oil in an HDi wasn't the pump, but the sensors measuring the viscosity of the fuel, not liking the thickness of SVO - or am I way out? I'm sure I read it somewhere....

never worked on a HDI but i believe the pump is situated in tank....veggy oil and the pump wont mix very well...hence twin tank with external pump

and cold veggy is much more stodgy than diesel (its why the name of the game is to get it to 70 odd degrees as quickly as possible)....the HDI is looking to move fuel through its system very quickly at high pressure and i cant see it coping with cold veggy