Xantia caliper mounting bolts

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tricky ricky
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Xantia caliper mounting bolts

Post by tricky ricky »

Hi

It's a long time since I have posted on this forum. However, I have been reading it on occasion.

Anyway, Today the first day without rain in 3 weeks I decided to do the front discs and pads on my '99 Xantia HDi Excl. This job I have done many times before.

This time when undoing the upper caliper retaining bolt on the O/S the torx bit (t55) slipped in the bolt head. I tried this several times and the same happened each time. Now the bolt head is rather chewed up and will require extracting.

Question is. Can anyone recommend a tool to remove this. Grinder is a no no due to the lack of power where I work on my car.

RS sell a rather nifty looking tool, bu i'm not sure if it is suitable for a fitting that is completely round (not hex)

http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/rswww/searc ... uknetscape

Any views welcome!
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Post by CitroJim »

Oh dear :(

Trouble is, accessibility is not good. I've found these bolts get full of muck and that stops the Torx bit going right in. I clean them out and tap the Torx in as far as it will go. It is worth trying hammering the bit right in, you may just pick up enough good spline to get it undone.

Failing that, I'd try hammering in a slightly larger hex (Allen) bit or the next Torx size up although this may be far too big. In fact, the very act of hammering can help shock the bolt free.

If this is the first time you've done the discs on this car, you'll still have thread locking compound on these bolts. gently warm them, being careful of the surrounding material and then try using a long breaker bar. I always find a long breaker bar with the bit right on the end with no extrension between bar and bit works the best, moderate and steady pressure on the bar translates to a lot of steady torque at the bit. A lot of force on a short bar always seem to me to be much less effective and can cause more harm than using a long breaker bar.

If all else fails, you'll have to drill off the head (battery drill) and extract the remains. You should be able to get the head off whilst leaving enough thread to grip. You'll probably find the remains of the bolt will screw out easily after this. You'll need good drills though as the bolts are high-tensile and hard. This is your last and least favoured option.

In any case, replace the bolt(s) using only the genuine item from your local Citroen Dealer. Don't take risks with the bolts in this very critical area.

The RS tool won't do as that is designed for external surfaces, not internal types like Torx and Allen. Looks a useful kit for normal niuts and bolts though.

Good luck, let us know how it goes :wink:
Jim

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tricky ricky
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Post by tricky ricky »

Hi Jim

Thanks for the response. Yes I hid hammer the torx bit into the bolt before I started. The bolt would not undo when applying pressure on the breaker bar. I then hit the end of the bar with a hammer, thats when it slipped :( :(
All the other bolts came out ok though. I must have done this bolt up too tight the last time I done the discs.

I understand the tool Ii was/ am considering is for external surfaces, but i was wondering if it will work on the external round surface of the torx bolt.

I will be ordering replacement bolts tomorrow as I assume the will not stock them :D :D

Thanks
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Post by Kowalski »

Could you file a couple of flats onto the round outside of the bolt head and then get a spanner on? Failing a spanner, a pair of molegrips might do the job, or a set of stilsons. whatever you can get a hold of it with.
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Post by AndersDK »

I'd try the blowtorh approach. Then using an impact screwdriver with any suitable bit/socket that will provide a positive grip.
Maybe a fresh sharp edged T55 bit is exactly what you need ?

Impact screwdrivers transfers the rotational energy at the very moment the inwards (or bit/socket "holding or clamping") energy is transferred.
You dont need then to apply forces in 2 directions while using a single tool.
And its quite simple to apply very large energy in one sharp blow.
Just remember the bolt MUST be hot to ensure the Locktite is not working against you.

Even the cheapo Taiwan impact drivers at some £5 are perfect for such jobs. And you wont aggro if the tool just barely makes it for this one job.

Just dont do what I did years ago first using such an impact tool : adjusting the rotation direction wrong to seize up the bolt instead ](*,)
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Post by tricky ricky »

Thanks Guys

Filing flats on the head and using molegrips may work. molegrips on the round head were useless.

Impact driver i think is no go, because I dont think i have enough room for that plus swqinging a hammer.
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Post by mpr1956 »

Hi there.. It might be worth the effort to remove the whole assembly and work on the bench.. If you have the tools it only takes Ten to fifteen minutes and you can then vent your spleen on the offending bolt with good access and visibility ! . As for your torx bit "slipping" I was recently amazed by the difference that replacing my tools with decent gear made... I had not realized how much my spanners and bits had worn over the last twenty years ( they have plenty of use on Citroens !) Good luck anyway... Martin
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Post by tricky ricky »

I have managed to get a replacement bolt from the dealer. I have also ordered the bolt extraction tool that I linked to from my first post. According to the guy I spoke to at Irwin, the tool is also suitable for this type of fixing. So here's hoping.

Yes I did consider removing the whole assembly, but that will be a last resort.

The Torx bit was bought from halfords about 10 years ago for the same job on my 1'st Xantia.
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Post by DickieG »

tricky ricky wrote:The Torx bit was bought from halfords about 10 years ago for the same job on my 1'st Xantia.
Hmm, I had one from them, blasted thing snapped when I was tightening up a cylinder head so I bought a 'proper' Facom one, much better, fits like a glove and hasn't snapped,,,,,,,,,,,
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Post by tricky ricky »

Could be that halfords torx bit is poor quality. I done a HG on a BX few years back and had no probs with it. I may invest in a decent one.

My problem may have been caused by corroded bolt & poor fitting tool.

A bad workman alwasys blame his tools :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by AndersDK »

\:D/
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Post by tricky ricky »

Good News! The bolt is now out by using the Irwin Bolt Grip!! What a wonderful tool.

The set I got is known as the expansion set which has the 19mm size I needed for this job. I'm sure it will come in handy in the future :D :D :D

Thanks for the advice.
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Post by mpr1956 »

Hi there... having had a few "eezi-outs" snap on me, it's good to hear of kit that really works - I just had a search to check this tool out, and it does look formidable !! Once that descending spiral starts to bite on the head of the offending bolt or stud, it has to be game over. Even if you never use it again, that kit had to be a good buy !! regards, Martin
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Post by tricky ricky »

Yes, I would 100% recommend this tool to anyone. It may never be used every day, but when you need it it's a lifesaver.

Got me out of a pickle :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by AndersDK »

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