HDi key problem

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 22 Jun 2007, 16:37

When I acquired my Xantia 1999 Hdi, it came with 3 keysets. Two of these are the standard Citroen folding fob with built-in buttons for the locks/alarm, plus another spare clearly not original.

The other day I picked up the set I had not previously used (Citroen folding fob etc,), but when I tried to start up, a continuous bleep accompanied by a key symbol flashing on the dash told me that the key was not allowed, although it entered and operated the starter, etc.

I have now checked the battery inside the fob which gives 3.2v, so this is probably not the reason. Is there a chip within the PC that authorises something? What to do?

Help please!

Post by **CitroJim** » 22 Jun 2007, 17:02

Hi Lol,

There is a transponder chip inside the key that is activated by the immobiliser to "authorise" the key on the same principle as an RFID tag. The battery in the fob plays no part in this.

It will be this chip that has failed. It is in the plastic part of the key and can be removed and according to pr.net it is availabe as a spare part although my dealer stated a new key would be required as well. The old fob can be re-used as the rivet is available as a spare part.

However it will need programming by your dealer and for this you need the plastic card that will have come with the car containing its unique transponder code. If you don't have the card, a dealer can obtain it on presentation of the cars VIN and proof of ownership etc.

I have this problem with one of my keys. Our local dealer, because I don't have my card, has quoted me the tick end of £100 to have a new key programmed

Being in France, I guess you'll be in a better position.

The "plip" part of the key fob only sets and desets the alarm and operates the central locking and is entirely separate from the immobiliser transponder.

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 22 Jun 2007, 17:42

All I need to know Jim, cheers - I shall soon see if CitFrance are any kinder! Now to rummage around for the bloody card...

Hi Lol,

There is a transponder chip inside the key that is activated by the immobiliser to "authorise" the key on the same principle as an RFID tag. The battery in the fob plays no part in this.

It will be this chip that has failed. It is in the plastic part of the key and can be removed and according to pr.net it is availabe as a spare part although my dealer stated a new key would be required as well. The old fob can be re-used as the rivet is available as a spare part.

However it will need programming by your dealer and for this you need the plastic card that will have come with the car containing its unique transponder code. If you don't have the card, a dealer can obtain it on presentation of the cars VIN and proof of ownership etc.

I have this problem with one of my keys. Our local dealer, because I don't have my card, has quoted me the tick end of £100 to have a new key programmed Evil or Very Mad

Being in France, I guess you'll be in a better position.

The "plip" part of the key fob only sets and desets the alarm and operates the central locking and is entirely separate from the immobiliser transponder.

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 22 Jun 2007, 17:49

Just re-read your reply- does the new key also mean new locks?

It will be this chip that has failed. It is in the plastic part of the key and can be removed and according to pr.net it is availabe as a spare part although my dealer stated a new key would be required as well. The old fob can be re-used as the rivet is available as a spare part.

Post by **RichardW** » 22 Jun 2007, 18:12

Before you go greasing the dealer's palm, it's possible it's just got out of synch. Try this (from Autodata - in [] by me):

Switch ignition on
Wait for system LED to extinguish - if fitted [not sure what this refers to!]
Within 30s, press lock or unlock button [presumably on known good key]
Within 10s, press lock or unlock button on remaining keys
Ensure system LED illuminates for approx 0.5 s [how can this be if one is not fitted....??]
Synchronization complete

This is recommended for keys that have been pressed whilst out of range, or battery replaced.

Post by **CitroJim** » 22 Jun 2007, 18:21

lolingram wrote:Just re-read your reply- does the new key also mean new locks?

No, the new key is a blank and can be cut to match your lock

Richard, the procedure you described is for the "plip" part. The immobiliser transponder either works or it does not and cannot fall out of sync. A useful procedure to know though

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 22 Jun 2007, 19:01

I daren't in case I screw up my only key that works...!

Before you go greasing the dealer's palm, it's possible it's just got out of synch. Try this (from Autodata - in [] by me):

Switch ignition on
Wait for system LED to extinguish - if fitted [not sure what this refers to!]
Within 30s, press lock or unlock button [presumably on known good key]
Within 10s, press lock or unlock button on remaining keys
Ensure system LED illuminates for approx 0.5 s [how can this be if one is not fitted....??]
Synchronization complete

This is recommended for keys that have been pressed whilst out of range, or battery replaced.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 23 Jun 2007, 10:59

[quote="citrojim]..Richard, the procedure you described is for the "plip" part. The immobiliser transponder either works or it does not and cannot fall out of sync. A useful procedure to know though

[/quote]

I don't know if this is any help but with certain Ford transponder keys, you can authorise (programme) new spare key transponders using the master key....

i.e. and from memory (which is sieve-like)

Insert master key
Turn ignition on and wait 10 seconds (for LED to light solid?)
Turn off, remove master and insert new spare within 10secs
Turn ignition on then off and remove key
Repeat for other new spares

Post by **CitroJim** » 23 Jun 2007, 13:28

That has to be worth a go Mike,

I've tried a similar procedure but what I found is that if you start using the good key and then remove it with the drivers door open, the bad key will work happily for as long as the door stays open. As soon as you shut the door, open it again and try the bad key it'll not work!

I shall try again later using your procedure Mike.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 23 Jun 2007, 18:25

citrojim, my memory is awful and I wouldn't trust my procedure for accuracy. I'll try and find the official method. Regarding "while the door stayed open" there may be an additional step like: - close and look the doors then the new key should work - but let me see if I can find the proper method.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 23 Jun 2007, 18:33

Remember, this is the FORD method
For 96- early 98 models:-

If you want to add a key....
1. Insert an existing key into the ignition cylinder.

2. Turn the ignition cylinder to ON (RUN) and back to OFF.

3. Remove the existing key and, within 15 seconds, insert the new key and turn it to ON (RUN).

4. The security light will light up for two seconds to indicate success in programming the key into the vehicle.

5. Don't attempt to start the vehicle with any key for at least 1 minute.

For Later 1998-newer Ford:-

If you want to add a key....
**You must have two original keys to perform this procedure. If you only have one key, you WILL have to take it to the dealer to get it programmed**

1. Insert and existing (working) key into the ignition cylinder.

2. Turn the ignition cylinder ON (RUN) and back to OFF. Ignition should stay on for at least ONE SECOND.

3. Remove the existing key and, within TEN seconds, insert a second working key and turn it to ON (RUN) and the back OFF. Ignition must be in ON for at least ONE second, but no more than TEN seconds. Remove the key.

4. Insert the new key before TWENTY seconds have elapsed and turn it to ON (RUN). Leave it the ON position for at least ONE second and turn back to OFF.

5. The security light will light up for THREE seconds to indicate that the new key has been successfully programmed.

6. To program additional keys, repeat steps 1 through 5

As a precautionary measure for all of the above procedures, you should wait at least one minute after you have performed this until you start your vehicle

Post by **CitroJim** » 23 Jun 2007, 21:51

Mike,

I tried your procedures gain this evening. Same result I'm afraid

The bad key works a treat after running the procedure but only until the drivers door is shut

C5IAM · Post by **C5IAM** » 23 Jun 2007, 22:09

There is a similar procedure for Citroens. 6/7 years a go I had to have a replacement key, for an XM I think, and the mechanic sat in the car and did a similar procedure and it was programmed in about 30 seconds. Haven't got a clue now how he did it!

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 23 Jun 2007, 23:43

citrojim, just a thought; I found my local ford mechanic was only to eager to tell me how to programme the fords transponder keys and I also found my local Citroen dealer staff more than willing to share their wealth of experience on my xantia faults. Perhaps you could try talking with a Cit mechanic or such, must be worth a try?

Post by **RichardW** » 24 Jun 2007, 18:45

You can't program in a new key to a MK11 Xantia without the dealer computer...

Sorry Jim - wasn't thinking straight about the difference between unlocking the car and operating the immobiliser