HDi Reliability

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
pwatson
Posts: 263
Joined: 22 Apr 2001, 03:02
Location: E Midlands
My Cars:

HDi Reliability

Post by pwatson »

Not posted for a good while because no probs on our Cits to ask about (and I don't know enough to help others!!) but still log on frequently!
Anyway, quite a lot of people on another forum I frequent refer to Common Rail engines as "Common Fail".
My response is that our W reg Xantia has over 90k on it and engine has not been touched except for routine oil/filter and one cambelt change. Response is usually that "you've been lucky, these engines fail at low mileages and are extremely expensive to repair when they do".
Now I've had a trawl through past posts and can't find much about this so...
can any of you give me examples of high mileage HDis still going strong?or conversely
low(<100k?) HDis that have gone pop?
Thanks in advance and happy Citroening to you all.
Phil
Phil
weety
Posts: 532
Joined: 24 Oct 2004, 13:49
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by weety »

i have heard tales of the in tank fuel lift pump going and the clutch self destructing but there seem to be a fair few high mileage ones around anyway
M reg xantia 1.9td 266000 miles expired
R reg xantia 1.9td 186000 miles veggy power expired
L reg renault clio 1.9D 91000 miles expired at 107000 miles
x reg clio 15d veggy power bottom of the car rotted through
06 c5 2.2 TD wowser so much power and comfort 160000 miles
User avatar
reblack68
Posts: 1047
Joined: 11 Feb 2004, 01:28
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by reblack68 »

170K on my Xantia. I've seen a few on eBay at 280k, maybe 281k is their limit.
Richard

No French cars of my own at present.
Care of a 1994 205 D.
nick
Posts: 1079
Joined: 14 Mar 2001, 01:49
Location: Market Rasen, Lincolnshire
My Cars:

Post by nick »

I remember a taxi driver on one of the forums complaining "These HDi's are rubbish, once they get to 300k they keep developing silly faults". I thought that was quite an endorsement...
I was talking to a taxi driver in Hull a few months back who ran a Xantia HDi estate with 250k on the clock & he was very pleased with it.

I've heard rumours of clutch problems, but I think its more to do with dual mass flywheels (which most earlier HDis didn't have) than the clutch. The engine itself appears to be virtually bullet proof, problems that do get mentioned a lot relate to the fuel system, not just on the HDi but many other common rail engines too.
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49531
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

I believe, mechanically, the HDi is just a development of the XUD. That said, I have always been impressd by the construction of all the XU family and the BE gearboxes. They are real brick outhouses and appear to be made of good quality metal. It is an education to strip one.

Given regular servicing, they should, mechanically, last like an XUD, i.e. for ever.

The real worry is all the electronics around it as they age. Electronics exhibit a "bathtub" reliability curve. They will either fail very early in life from semiconductor manufacturing defects (infant mortality) or fail late in life (old age - semiconductors do deteriorate with age). If they get past the infant mortality stage than they generally enjoy a period of very high reliability. A bit like us really!

Mechanical bits are fixable ad-infinitum and amenable to ingenious methods of repair. With electronics, this is not so these days and the problem is, as yet, there are no HDi workarounds. On a petrol engine it is possible to ditch the whole engine management and replace it with something like a Megasquirt but I'm not aware of a diesel equivilent.

failing lift pumps should not be a problem. I would think in desperation, another pump could be rigged up to do the job.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
reblack68
Posts: 1047
Joined: 11 Feb 2004, 01:28
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by reblack68 »

The lift pumps aren't that dear, it's the havoc created by bits of lift pump going through the fuel system that costs. As far as I can tell they are close to bomb proof if you can avoid this problem.
Richard

No French cars of my own at present.
Care of a 1994 205 D.
weety
Posts: 532
Joined: 24 Oct 2004, 13:49
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by weety »

i have found over the years that mechanical reliability has gone backwards (mostly in the hunt for increased service intervals and extra power)

gearboxes are a case in point, i have found the later PSU gearboxes (BE5?) fail more frequently than the old BE3

the thing that has improved is car build quality so that cars dont fall prey to corrosion like they used to :D (which has mixed feelings for me as i used to earn a fortune welding cars back in the 80/90s :twisted: )
M reg xantia 1.9td 266000 miles expired
R reg xantia 1.9td 186000 miles veggy power expired
L reg renault clio 1.9D 91000 miles expired at 107000 miles
x reg clio 15d veggy power bottom of the car rotted through
06 c5 2.2 TD wowser so much power and comfort 160000 miles
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10814
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 984

Post by RichardW »

The biggest killer of modern diesels seems to be putting petrol in them. I think the trouble with CR engines is that when they do go down, it is usually some obscure electrical fault that costs loads to find and put right, or a total system failure that costs ££ to correct with new HP pump and injectors required. TBH I think they are improving - eg the lift pumps have been pretty well cured, the problems with the early Renault 1.9 DCi units seem to have been overcome on later engines.

I have a standing search on C5 HDis on ebay, and there are very few on there that have done <100k, and many are in the 150-170k region.
Richard W
lolingram
RIP 2010
Posts: 550
Joined: 27 Dec 2006, 07:59
Location: France
My Cars:
x 1
Contact:

Post by lolingram »

I have a Xantia 90bhp HDi estate with 203k miles on it and is still going like a train... no oil consuption at all, as well as 43+ mpg in summer (S. France) with air con on all the time. Without aircon, 46+mpg.

Serviced (by me) every 10k miles using 100% synth (Supermarket) 5W40 oil. Problems have just been wear related - ex cat removed and welded up, rollbar drop links, front spheres and suchlike. I really cannot complain at all.
Given regular servicing, they should, mechanically, last like an XUD, i.e. for ever.

The real worry is all the electronics around it as they age. Electronics exhibit a "bathtub" reliability curve. They will either fail very early in life from semiconductor manufacturing defects (infant mortality) or fail late in life (old age - semiconductors do deteriorate with age). If they get past the infant mortality stage than they generally enjoy a period of very high reliability. A bit like us really!
R.I.P. January 2010.
XM 2.1 auto VSX 1996 - Bosch Inj, Xantia HDi 90 estate 1999, Xantia 1.9TD 1997
Previously...
GS 1970, Dyane 1974, Xantia 94 VSX TD, XM 94, 2.1 auto - Lucas Inj, XM 92 2.1 estate - Lucas Inj
User avatar
mooseshaver
Posts: 886
Joined: 27 Apr 2006, 10:50
Location: Cumbria
My Cars:

Re: HDi Reliability

Post by mooseshaver »

pwatson wrote:Anyway, quite a lot of people on another forum I frequent refer to Common Rail engines as "Common Fail".

Phil
Its probably my fault. When I had problems with a C3 HDi, my dad was not impressed and warned my mechanic brother off HDi diesels. Well he probable told someone, who told someone else. So I am to blame for the HDi's reputaiton.

My 2.2 HDi has trouble with a Turbo, does that count? its not related at all to the comon rail bits. Most problems I have had appear to be electrical/computer related.
C5 III Tourer 2.0 HDi 163 Auto Exclusive
Gone cars.
C5 2.2 HDi Exclusive Estate auto 57. Awesome car. Sadly Could not be fixed by Citroen.
C5 1.6 HDi VTR Estate 56. Traded in.
C5 2.2 HDi SX Estate 02. Drowned in the floods of 09.
C3 1.4 HDi 92 SX 52.
Saxo 1.1 East Coast.
paulstow
Posts: 21
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 17:36
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
Contact:

Post by paulstow »

My W plate Xantia HDi estate is now up to 196K miles with no significant problems.

There is something which sounds a bit like pinking around 2000 - 3000rpm, and I have to periodically blow out the vacuum line to the turbo contol valve to avoid the odd occasion when the turbo doesn't spin up, but that's about it so I'm happy.

Got to get the front discs off these week though, and they are looking solid!!

Cheers - Jez
Jez

'00 Xantia 2.0HDi
'01 Dispatch 2.0HDi
'01 Jaguar XKR
'68 MGB roadster
steelcityuk
Posts: 1053
Joined: 03 Jul 2006, 21:51
Location: not applicable
My Cars: not applicable
x 1

Post by steelcityuk »

My Exclusive's upto 142,000 miles, doesn't use anything other diesel. Will be going soon, the Ebay auction ends tomorrow.

Steve.
not applicable
lolingram
RIP 2010
Posts: 550
Joined: 27 Dec 2006, 07:59
Location: France
My Cars:
x 1
Contact:

Post by lolingram »

Why are you selling it Steve, just out of interest?
My Exclusive's upto 142,000 miles, doesn't use anything other diesel. Will be going soon, the Ebay auction ends tomorrow.

Steve.
R.I.P. January 2010.
XM 2.1 auto VSX 1996 - Bosch Inj, Xantia HDi 90 estate 1999, Xantia 1.9TD 1997
Previously...
GS 1970, Dyane 1974, Xantia 94 VSX TD, XM 94, 2.1 auto - Lucas Inj, XM 92 2.1 estate - Lucas Inj
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49531
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

Speaking to our Local Citroen garage parts man this afternoon, he was telling me a set of HDi injectors cost £1000 :shock:

He was also saying if the HP injection pump goes because the lift pump fails or there are serious electronic problems, they're rarely economic to repair.

On that basis I reckon it would be best to retrofit an XUD, preferably a mechanical pump one :wink:
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
pwatson
Posts: 263
Joined: 22 Apr 2001, 03:02
Location: E Midlands
My Cars:

Post by pwatson »

Thanks for the replies so far chaps - some interesting points - but no-one yet saying their HDi has gone pop at low mileages!
citrojim,
I see your point but there are a few "ifs" there and no-one has yet said they have had to replace the injectors at £1000 or had to replace the HP injection pump.
Have to say that our Xantia, 7 years old and nothing like the mileage of some above (getting towards 100k) doesn't owe us anything - very reliable.
In fact, what has amazed me, having owned a couple of high mileage BXs, is that even the spheres seem to be original and so far show no signs of needing replacement. Had a rear electro valve done though.
Now, how about some really high mileage HDis?? - remember this post from a few years ago????

"I drive a BX diesel which I use as a taxi. It's my 5th. BX 19 diesel & all gave me the greatest satisfaction in both reliability & economy. I still have my 1987 BX which I cannibalise for spares, not that I need many. It was retired for 'scrap' after a crash @ 350,000 miles. It's replacement was sold off for less than the value of its parts @ 450,000 miles; one has been retired to my driveway @ 740,000miles & my current workhorse is now @ 380,000 miles. I've never changed a wheel-bearing, only one gearbox and a few suspension bits"
mike1703 (2002)

Regards
PhilW
Phil
Post Reply