The est(hate)!

[LeeDJC]

Well, as you may have noticed, I have sold the Activa, and bought an estate.

Swings and roundabouts really. The estate is newer, more economical and more practical than the Activa, however it's not as fun to drive and has virtually done 3 times as many miles as the Activa had done. On the bright side however, it's my brother that now has it, so it's not entirely out of my reach

The reason I'm posting this, is that there are a few niggles with the estate. Nothing what you'd call major or catastrophic, but niggles to me all the same. I'm hoping that by posting them up here I can get a bit of help sorting them out, as I know how friendly and helpful you guys are!

The estate was previously a taxi, and has done 190,000 miles. I have virtually NO service history with the car. I'm just glad that I didn't pay much for it! Overall it's a pretty tidy car, the engine is only a little noisy, but pretty good for 190k! It pulls well and doesn't smoke etc.

So, on with the problems!:

1. Left hand cooling fan working all of the time and the Bitron Unit isn't mounted where it should be, but shoved in behind the headlight. Leading me to believe that there is/was a problem with this.

2. Air con not working, but this is going to a specialist to sort.

3. Gear change is a bit sloppy - it will go into gear OK, just not particularly "nicely". I'm wondering whether this is the linkage being worn or the gearbox worn - or a combination of the two.

4. Engine cut out on over run. This happened to me today, but after I was gunning it a little. It cut out, but only for a fraction of a second. When driving normally, was no problems. I'm thinking that maybe a plug and lead change may sort this?

5. General sloppy feel to the car/suspension. I guess this is probably down to worn bushes etc on the suspension components. I'm considering breaking up my 1.9D to get good parts and spares for the estate, then putting these on. Probably more economical than MOTing the 1.9D, selling it and then buying spares anyway.

I think thats about it for the minute. Nothing too major, but niggly nonetheless.

Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated. My first priority at the moment is getting the aircon/cooling fan situation sorted, then going from there. Eventually I would like to replace the engine, but only after doing the rest of the car first!

[CitroJim]

Hi Lee,

Not bad for 190K

Right, points in turn, briefly..

1. This points to a problem with the relays rather than the Bitron. fans should be off, both running half-speed or both full-speed. there should not be an instance where one runs and not the other. Disconnect the brown Bitron sensor on the thermostat housing and both should run full-speed. Consult the BoL wiring diagram for the relay wiring and go from there.

2. I'll hand over to Cloggz here firstly, does the A/C clutch pull in and what do the fans do when the A/C is switched on? My suspicion is that it is all connected with the fan problem and Bitron unit.

3. Check the linkages. Likely the nylon inserts in the balljoints have worn out. If all gears go in with no crunching then the gearbox is basically OK. Synchro problems will always cause either severe baulking and/or crunches. Try pulling off each linkage balljoint in turn and greasing them. Check any supports are tight. The 205 has a balljoint bolted to the subframe for a bellcrank and this comes loose and gives a terribly sloppy change. I cannot recall if the Xantia has this.

4. Almost certainly an air leak on the inlet tract/throttle body/inlet manifold causing a very weak mixture under high vacuum deceleration conditions. Idle Control Valve may be sticky and in need of a good clean with carb cleaner.

5. After an Activa a normal Xantia will feel sloppy The bushes on the front wishbones are worth a check. Check also the rear swinging arm bearings are not worn (any negative camber /-\ evident?) and check the front lower swivel joints. They're a **** to replace. Also, at the back, check the subframe mounting rubbers. The rear of the subframe has sandwich mounts and the front, silentbloc bushes. Any of these will make the rear feel a bit loose if they have failed.

[LeeDJC]

Thanks Jim for the great reply - as usual

I think that the most pressing issue is with the cooling fans, and then go from there. I'll have a look after work tomorrow.

The A/C I'm not too concerned about, but would love it to be working Basically the clutch isn't engaging and I can't see anything in the sight glass, so I think that is a low/no pressure situation. Hopefully a charge will sort that out.

I wouldn't be surprised if the ICV is sticky, as when you let your foot off the acelerator when revving at a standstill the engine doesn't drop back to idle as quickly as it should. (Unless thats another issue altogether!!) What's the best way to clean this? Take the inlet manifold to bits and give a liberal spray?

It feels extremely sloppy compared to the Activa, but even more sloppy that the 1.9D which actually has quite a nice "tight" feeling to it. (If you know what I mean).

I will check over the subframe mounts etc tomorrow and see what the situation is there.

Another thing that I forgot to mention, is that the brakes are dire!
I think that it's most likely air in the brakes, as when I did some citerobics earlier the LHM was frothing nicely! I'll give them a good bleed, again maybe tomorrow, and see what it's like. The LHM could do with changing also, but that can wait for the minute!

Talking about LHM, I've decided to get a new carpet to replace the one in there that's stained. The carpet isn't in the best condition anyway. Not too bad, but could be better! Also much easier than hours of scrubbing at the old one!

[CitroJim]

Hi Lee,

Yes, the best way to deal with the ICV is to take it off and give it a good clean with carb cleaner or similar. I believe they're a stepper motor.

It'll aslo be worth checking the integrity of the pipe to the MAP sensor. These are prone to splitting on some models and bleeding air in which upsets their function. As I say, have a good look around the throttle body and inlet manifold for any air leaks and give the whole inlet tract a good clean-up.

Your brakes. Is there a slight delay between pressing the pedal and the brakes being applied? It'll be largely caused by air and if your LHM is frothy you have a lot of air in there. Either you have a ruptured sphere leaking nitrogen in to the system (the anti-sink sphere is a favourite for this as it gets forgotten about) or you are drawing air on the intake side of the HP pump. Check the pipe between the LHM reservoir and the pump for cracks and perishing. Like a diesel fuel system, it won't leak but because it is under suction it can draw air.

The accumulator sphere could also be leaky, what is your regulator tick interval and does the car pass the "sit in the boot" test? If the anti-sink sphere is flat, the rear will drop when you start up and then rise again.

Whilst you are in a brake mood, I'd give your rear calipers a good overhaul and clean any corrosion behind them.

Finally, going back to your LHM stained carpet Post, have a check of your Brake Doseur Valve to check it is not leaking.

As it's non-hydractive and only six spheres, I'd be inclined to change the lot.

[LeeDJC]

Cool, will try and get the ICV off tonight and give a good clean. It's been a bit flat after changing gear, and after having a bit more of a look into it, this is a symptom of a faulty/stickt ICV as well. So, hopefully a good clean will sort it all out

With regard to the brakes, they are generally weak, and yes there is a delay. I'm pretty certain this is due to air, so will get bleeding shortly!

I am aiming to change all 6 spheres, and hydraflush as well. I'm sure that this will sort out all the braking and suspension symptoms. When I did this with my 1.9D it gave it a new lease of life!

It's all down to cash As you know I'm leaving work shortly to go self employed so the readies aren't quite as "ready" at the moment!

Good idea checking the doseur valve. I'm assuming that the stain is from a previous leak, but it's possible it's still leaking! Although jusging by the size of the stain etc, it looks as though a lot of LHM was leaking at some point. I will check it out just to be on the safe side however!

[Clogzz]

I'll hand over to Cloggz here

Thanks Jim,

The Bitron is often under the headlight, the other place is in the under-bonnet fuse box.
One fan running fast all the time is probably a sticking relay behind the grill, unless the taxi got a bodgie to make up for another fan fault.
You can experiment by removing the fan fuses in turn to see what happens.

When switching on the air conditioner, both fans must go to slow speed, irrespective of the state of the air conditioning system, because they also have to operate when the engine gets hot in traffic … something to watch before it looks like £££.



This link explains the fan operation:

http://www.peugeotlogic.com/workshop/ws ... fanop1.htm

More maps and pictures in this bucket:

http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/Clogzz/

[LeeDJC]

Thats some very useful info. I'm on lunch at work at the mo, so will have a proper look and take it all in later.

However, I'm groaning when I read - Both fans must run at slow speed irrespective of the state of the aircon! As the left fan runs 100% regardless of temperature, or whether the aircon is on or not, and the right fan never cuts in. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the left fan has been wired to a permanent (ignition switched) live

However, I ran the car at idle for around an hour last night while doing citerobics and having a general poke around, and the car didn't go over 80 degrees, so at least it seems as it's not going to overheat! This is my main concern, and getting it functioning properly for aircon etc can wait a minute while I get the other bits and pieces sorted out.

One thing I did notice though, is that the Bitron unit is no longer mounted under the headlight, but has previously been removed and has been pushed in behind the light. So obviously someone has been trying to repair a fault with this at some point.

[Clogzz]

Oops ! Hadn’t properly read your initial post about the Bitron location, but it may be helpful to let it dangle where it is for now to make diagnosing easier.

The Bitron pins are tinned with solder, and in time the contacts become dodgy, most obviously pins 7 & 14 that have the resistive brown temperature sensor input.
I had this problem, and cured it by scraping the pins with the rough end of a piece of broken metals hacksaw blade.
A previous squirt of WD40 was good for only a few days.

[LeeDJC]

No probs, I'm just as bad with regard to reading posts!!

I'll give that a go in the first instance, and see what happens, and I'll have a bit more of a poke around later to see whats on with it regarding the possibility of bodged wiring. I've got to give the ICV a clean later anyway.

Here's hoping!!

[KennyW]

Hi LeeDJC,

I had fun with my A/C last year project still not complete!!!!!!!!

But,the problem I had was bad connections running from the wiring loom to the fans.
I had to trace back each wire for the fans to its connection and check if it had a supply.
There were no problems with the relays or fan motors or Briton.

Forum topic No19296 for your info.

Cheers and good hunting
Kenny

[RichardW]

If your stained carpet is in the passenger foot well, then I can't see how it can be LHM (doseur valve is in the driver's footwell). Unless it spilled out of a tin being carried around. More likely it is / was coolant from a leaking heater matrix. Have a feel around under the dash in the passenger foot well - there is a plastic spigot that sticks out just next to the centre console. If this is wet, prepare for the worst job of all.....

[LeeDJC]

I thought that there was a problem in that a particular LHM leak causes a large puddle in the passenger footwell? Perhaps I am mistaken??

It looks more like LHM than anti-freeze, but I'm not too concerned about doing a matrix change. I've just recently done a Punto matrix change which was also a complete dash out job. It just needs patience and lots of photos

[CitroJim]

I thought that there was a problem in that a particular LHM leak causes a large puddle in the passenger footwell? Perhaps I am mistaken??

It looks more like LHM than anti-freeze, but I'm not too concerned about doing a matrix change. I've just recently done a Punto matrix change which was also a complete dash out job. It just needs patience and lots of photos

Yes, there is the leakage return pipe from the brake doseur that runs across the bulkhead back to the reservior that can split/come adrift and leak LHM over on the passenger side. It is also quite staggering just where LHM can creep! In fact there are a lot of leakage returns behind the reservoir, any of which could conceviably leak into the footwell.

LHM will be very oily. Mind you, so can antifreeze. The only sure way is a taste test. I don't know what LHM tastes like but antifreeze is very, very sweet. LHM though has it's very own smell.

[LeeDJC]

My first impression is that it's oldish LHM as it's got that green/brown look, but then some antifreezes can be that colour also!

I think with regard to this leak, whether it's past or present is to wait until I've got the carpets out and then have a good look then.

Also, in the meantime, I shall keep a good eye on the LHM and antifreeze levels

[LeeDJC]

Had a poke around in the engine bay tonight.

I have taken the ICV out and given it a good clean, and also around the opening to the throttle body, which had a noticable amount of oil in it. Oh dear

Well, with an engine (which is, as far as I know the orginal) that has done 190k, I'm not surprised that it's regurgitating a bit of oil. If I'm not mistaken, isn't this due to a worn crank, or am I miles out? Personally, I'm not sure how that can be the case, but it's what a mechanic once told me many years ago when my 205 diesel (my first car) was doing the same thing although, albiet worse.

At some point (when I can get the airbox out/replaced, as someone has knackered two of the screws) I'll whip the throttle body off and give it a clean out, although I'm wondering if I'm wasting my time!

I also took a look at the Bitron/fan set up. Hmm, is the Bitron supposed to rattle?!? Could this be the cause of the dodgy fan operation? I disconnected the Bitron with the engine running, and lo and behold the fan stopped. I *think* this is a good thing, as I'm now assuming that the fan isn't permanantly wired up to a live feed. When I connected the Bitron back up, the fan once again kicked in after a couple of seconds. Also the contacts all look good on the Bitron/plug.

I was also going to bleed off the brakes tonight, but didn't get chance, as I got colled out on a job. Hopefully tomorrow, as we're off to Cambridge at the weekend.

The saga continues.........