ZX TD Water Pumps - Whats the difference ??

[sooty]

Anyone know Whats the difference between a N17010, a N17018 and a N17024 water pumps, mechanically ??

Do they have different pumping capacities or different design in shape etc.

I know it should be a N17018 for my ZX, but why are 3 pumps listed at GSF for a TD.

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And then for a Radiator, it lists 2 for a TD with a build > 6171, N17396 @£49 and a N17404 @£77.

Which is which for build No.6976 ??

[CitroJim]

Roughly,

Slightly different castings to accommodate the changes to cam covers over the life of the engine (clip-on covers vs bolt-on)

Diesel pumps have larger impellers. These are also used in iron-blocked petrol engines. Alloy XUs have a pump that looks identical but has a smaller impeller. This one will work (sort of) in a diesel but not vise-versa.

So, one type is for late diesels and iron petrols, another is for early diesels (clip-on cam covers) and the third type is for alloy XUs but is often seen as a universal fitment.

N17018 is later diesel and iron block petrol XU
N17010 is earlier diesel
N17024 must be for an even later TD. Did the cam covers change again very late in life? Never seen one of those...

So there is a fourth type

N17008 is the small impeller alloy block version that fits anything but is not good for diesels or petrol turbo XUs. I've noticed that some pattern part suppliers specify this one for all XU/XUD engines

[CitroJim]

And then for a Radiator, it lists 2 for a TD with a build > 6171, N17396 @£49 and a N17404 @£77.

Which is which for build No.6976 ??

Easier! The earlier one will have jubilee-type hose clips N17396 and the other will have those bayonet clip hose connectors (N17404)

Sods law always says the one you want is the more expensive one

Give GSF a call if any doubt. They're remarkably helpful and clued-up.

[sooty]

Thanks Citro,

Yes its Sods law, my Rad is the Bayonet type. As we all know they can be Sods to get off.

If thats the only difference in the rads then I might go for the earlier one.


On another subject " Fun - 1990 Peugeot 205 1.6 GTi "

Do you use this as a track day or general day to day fun car, as my son uses his 1.9 GTI as a Track Day mostly at LLandow. 8)

[CitroJim]

On another subject " Fun - 1990 Peugeot 205 1.6 GTi "

Do you use this as a track day or general day to day fun car, as my son uses his 1.9 GTI as a Track Day mostly at LLandow. 8)

Gosh no, the GTi is totally standard and is kept and run as a classic car. In fact it has a very gentle life really. It is great fun to drive though and I've had a lot of fun restoring it

Same with the Activa. I run it like a classic car (although it's my daily driver) and hopefully one day it'll take its rightful place amongst modern classics. The "more fun" refers to the "fun" I've had getting it into good order, hence "Tears and Joy..."

[sooty]

Well I've renewed my Cambelt and at the same time, the Water pump was renewed as this was the original from new and at 181k I thought I'm pushing my luck for another 45k.

I was hoping to see some improvement on the cooling side in this warm weather as most people say if you've got cooling problems change the pump. I've also used the hose to clean the matrix in the rad and intercooler. Well I have and its just the same.

And before anyone says about the HEADGASKET, it uses no water in 3 months or more. And its been bled properly.

So the next stage is to renew the Radiator as this is the second.

My question is there any reason why I can't fit the older rad in place of the bayonet bottom hose type rad.

[CitroJim]

It is always a good idea to swap the rad at your kind of mileage

181K on the original waterpump is good going! I swapped my original Xantia TD at 169k and I could really find nothing at all wrong with it.

My question is there any reason why I can't fit the older rad in place of the bayonet bottom hose type rad.

None at all, but you'll have to change hoses for the earlier type I don't think they'd be long enough if you just chopped of the bayonets. Certainly my Xantia hoses have bayonets one end and jubilee clips on the other.

You may find a new rad and new hoses works out dearer than a new bayonet rad.

If your top hose has take-offs for an oil cooler, you'll find this hose is quite dear

[sooty]

Thxs Jim,

You may well be right, but the bayonet is a sod to get off as we all know. Thats why I've asked about the older rad. My top hose has no take offs, so if I did change for the older rad it would be just the bottom hose to be renewed.

Thxs for the PM, I've not had chance yet to have a look.

[sooty]

Rather than start a new Topic about cooling etc which I've asked about in this Topic.

I think a temporary remedy for my over heating problem as most do with TD ZX's at high speed 80 to 90 mph.

Aerodynamics !!


I've found by repositioning the lower middle grille bar (the one beneath the No. plate) closer to the bottom of bumper vent. In effect making a scoop and this directs the flow to the center of the fans (behind the No. plate part of the bumper) rather than the bottom of the fans as you look from the front of the car. The flow appears to cool a larger area through the fans. As yesterday I did a trip to Devon happly without any signs of getting too hot when it was pushing up any hills (Telegraph Hill, Exeter).

I know the Rad needs to be done in the long term, but it appears to work as temporary measure.

[AndersDK]

If you get in trouble with a too hot engine, you can always remove the thermostat.
Only consequence is that the engine will be slower to warm up, and might never reach the warm running temperature at speeds with airflow constantly cooling the rad.
Better this than frying your cylinderhead.

[sooty]

Thxs for your reply

I would have thought if you removed the thermostat, although it might be slower to warm up. That in time on a journey it would catch up on its self and still reach the same temperature as with a thermostat fitted whether the airflow is through the rad or not.

The same volume of coolant is still being circulated once the thermostat is fully opened.

[jeremy]

Some engines rely on the restriction provided by the thermostat to ensure proper circulation. I wouldn't remove one to stop potential overheating if it were working correctly - as to be honest I don't think it'll make any difference.

If the radiator is partially blocked I can't see how removing something elsewhere in the circuit is going to make any difference as the flow through the radiator will still be restricted.

I believe the longevity of these engines is a result of careful temperature control - particularly of the rings and bores. I think the theory was produced as a result of work by Ricardo but haven't found a summary of it yet.

[CitroJim]

I believe the longevity of these engines is a result of careful temperature control - particularly of the rings and bores. I think the theory was produced as a result of work by Ricardo but haven't found a summary of it yet.

I believe you are absolutely correct Jeremy.

[James.UK]

I had no problems whatsoever removing the bayonet clip, or (after geasing it up well,) was it a problem to reconnect.. What did cause megga problems was the pesky "O" ring on the end!! The new one was too big to go in!! Even the old one was too hard for me, fortunately Stewart (oilyspanner) was strong enough to get the pipe back in for me..

Thanks again Stewart.

My local pet mechanic told me he always takes the other end off and threads the pipe back through the hole in the wing when he replaces the rad.. you may find that easier?

On my old grey ZX the front number plate had spacers behind it where the screws went in, and as the fixings were above centre, the plate tilted back at the bottom under wind pressure.. That car always ran slightly cooler then my "new" ZX,.. but whether it was due to the number plate tilting I am not sure. If you have heat problems it's worth a try, it wont do any harm that's for sure.
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