Auxiliary belt pulley

windysurferuk · Post by **windysurferuk** » 10 May 2007, 21:12

My auxiliary belt finally decided it was going to rip its self to pieces on the way home from work.
I had noticed it was making a bit of noise so I bought a spare one with the intention of changing it but never got round to it. Last time I looked at it, it seemed to have moved over a notch towards the engine.
Anyway after an unnerving drive to safety with no power steering or brakes the RAC man came and tried to fit the new belt.
After an hour or so he gave up saying either I have the wrong belt as it seemed way to short and/or the top pulley (the one with the big spring?) was knackered. The pulley doesn’t seem to line up quite right with the others.

My questions are:

Should the belt be that hard to fit even if there was a problem with the pulley?

How easy/hard is it to change the pulley?

What other cars will have the same pulley on them?

The car is a 2.1 Xantia with aircon

Cheers
Windy

PS just had a look at another post similar to this with a link to some pics on PRnet but these no longer work.Could somebody post a piccy of the tensioner assembly please

ta

Post by **CitroJim** » 10 May 2007, 22:18

Hi Windy,

My first guess is that it was the wrong belt. There are several different ones, all of slightly differing lengths. TehAgent, Xac and I found this to our cost on Monday and ended up taking the remains of the broken belt to Halfrauds (who claim not to stock Xantia belts

) and spent an enjoyable time comparing it to new belts. There were several near the length we needed but not quite. If you still have the remains of the old belt, this is the way to go.

Else measure with a length of string or tape the length you need and use this.

Tensioners on the 2.1 are easy enough to check. If they run freely and have no play, they're OK. Check the spring by putting a 3/8" drive socket handle (T bar or ratchet) in the square hole and pull on it to compress the spring. It should be a fair old job as the spring is heavy.

The only other Xantia that shares the same tensioner arrangement is the 2.0L Activa as far as I know. It looks to be very similar to 2.1 TD setup.

I had a similar problem of the belt running one groove off the HP pump. That was due to the wrong alternator being fitted. It was too long and its pulley did not correctly line up with the others and tensioners.

Pr.net going is a terrible loss. Hopefully someone has the picture but if all else fails I'm sure one of us can do a rough sketch.

EDIT: Another cause may be your crank pulley is starting to break up (or the rubber between the inner and outer annulus). That could cause the belt to ride one groove off and make a new one hard to fit. Do check this and if the rubber looks badly cracked, change it quick as if the pulley separates in service it could be nasty. You can also check it by painting a white line across it and seeing if it moves when the pulley is spinning under load.

windysurferuk · Post by **windysurferuk** » 10 May 2007, 22:25

Theres nothing left of the old belt so nothing to check against.
There where two possable belts to choose from at the shop so It looks like I got the wrong one.
I assume my belt has come of due to a faulty tensioner or is it worth just putting a new belt on and seeing how it goes?

Is this part the same as on a XM?

Thanks

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 11 May 2007, 00:04

You can check the belt options and dimensions here:

http://www2.qha.com/catalogues.asp

The size is coded into the number - one of the digits is the number of ribs the rest is the length in mm.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 11 May 2007, 00:49

The 2.1TD has the same tensioner setup as mine and TehAgent's 1.9's, with a spring armed one at the top and an ofset manual tensioner at the bottom.
The manual tensioner is slackened by an 8mm allen key. You'll need a small socket bar to turn it (can't remember the size, it's the really small one).
The belt length on the 1.9TD depends on the make of a/c compressor as they have different pulley diameters, so I'm guessing it's the same for the 2.1TD (unless Citroen just went with one make).

You need to slacken the manual tensioner, and using a 3/8 socket inserted into the square hole in the auto tensioner, rotate it out of the way to give you enough slack to put the new belt on.
There's supposedly a hole under the auto tensioner that you can insert a bent rod into to lock the auto tensioner out of the way.
I found it impossible to get a short 3/8 extension bar into the square hole, it was too long, so using Jim's inspiration I cut it down (chopped the square socket off) and ground two flat sides off for a 10mm spanner to fit, then I could get this into the auto tensioner with an extension bar (aka my DIY sphere removal tool) on the spanner to hold the tensioner out the way.
It wasn't an easy job, despite it being simple.

Post by **RichardW** » 11 May 2007, 08:21

Have a look at this thread:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=21210

On page 3 you will find a link to a web page showing photos of the tensioner - this was fitted to a 1.9, but the later ones used the same set up as the 2.1. Almost for sure you will find the tensioner needs changing. You need to remove the HP pump and alternator, then take out the mounting bracket to be able to change the tensioner.

windysurferuk · Post by **windysurferuk** » 11 May 2007, 10:24

Thanks for the link.I have already looked at this post 9I even posted in itabout by tensioners!)but the links to the pictures are for PRnet and no longer work

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 11 May 2007, 10:46

What? This link: http://geocities.com/citpics/auxtension

Wiggle the tensioner pulleys and see if they're solid or not.
If you can't get a 3/8 bar into the square hole on the auto tensioner, then go to B&Q and get a similar size iron bar and bend it to fit.
If once you've got something in the auto tensioner square hole but it's just not moving on it's pivot, then you may need to replace it.
I say may as you may be able to fit a new belt by just slackening the manual tensioner, it depends in what position the auto tensioner has jammed.
The one on my 2.1TD moved easily, the one on my 1.9TD is solid.

Stewart(oily) · Post by **Stewart(oily)** » 11 May 2007, 15:50

It is possible to replace the auto tensioner pulley without replacing the entire thing, just a torx in the centre, If thats the one thats shot, I had to buy the whole assembly to get it though.
Stewart

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 11 May 2007, 16:30

I used to run a 2.1 and if memory serves me the auxilary belt was 1725mm

windysurferuk · Post by **windysurferuk** » 11 May 2007, 16:32

Managed to fit a new belt.
The spare one the RAC man tried to fit for an hour or so was a 1725 .
so i got a 1740 which when on without messing with the auto tensioner.

The auto tensioner pully doesn't wiggle about ( or any of the others) but does seem to be cocked upwards slghtly. Think i'm going to change the top tensioner ( or get somebody to do it for me

)

One question it has raised for me is how long should the brakes work for after the belt has come off. Mine seemed to stop working almost as soon as the light came on.Is this about right.?

cheers

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 11 May 2007, 16:36

Something like 50 pushes of the brake pedal.
Could be your accumulator needs replacing maybe.

windysurferuk · Post by **windysurferuk** » 11 May 2007, 16:39

is there a better way to tell than to try driving without the belt on

?

If it is that which one front or back and how hard are they to change?

cheers

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 11 May 2007, 16:41

Accumulator is the one at the front of the engine.
With the engine running, if it's flat it should tick.
You can also try turning the engine off and then sitting in the boot. It will drop and then rise back up within 30 seconds if the acc is ok

Easier to replace on the 2.1TD than the 1.9TD!

windysurferuk · Post by **windysurferuk** » 11 May 2007, 17:31

I thing I'll change the Accumulator for the sake of £20

Is it a case of dropping the car to its lowest setting with the engine running and then release the pressure, change sphere, retighten presure screw and the lift the car up and down a few times?