Hi - car is a 1998 Peugeot 806, 1.9 TD engine with about 102,000 miles. Ages ago I started getting big drops of oil in the coolant header tank - I posted a question on here and got the answer that it was either the head gasket going or possibly the oil cooler (behind the oil filter).
It got no better and the header tank got really oily......I booked it into the local garage for investigation - he said he thought there was nothing wrong with the head gasket and thought it may be the oil cooler.
I sourced a second hand oil cooler and went to change it myself one day. Drained the oil and then drained the radiator. But rather to my surprise the coolant in the radiator was as clean as anything - not a drop of oil in it. Now to my thinking if the oil cooler had failed (or indeed the head gasket) - the pumping of coolant around the engine, radiator and head would mean all the coolant would be contaminated. Or could it be floating to the top?? (The radiator is very new and heats up nicely).
So thinking it was then probably not the oil cooler I just put the coolant back in the car and filled up with new oil and filter...
I should point out the car starts and drives absolutely perfectly, and no obvious clouds of water vapour or smoke coming out the exhaust, and no sign of water in the engine oil.
That was a few months ago, but more recently in the last month the coolant seems to have been getting over-pressurised and spraying out of the pressure cap ( or thats what it looks like) all over the engine - as it is largely oil it makes an awful mess...!
I immediately bought a new header tank cap but it continues to happen...
The only other factor I can think of is my engine breather pipe hardened and cracked (going from the valve cover down to somewhere at the base of the fuel filter housing) (and was the cause of another messy oil leak) - I finally got one from Peugeot and fitted that. It was just after that that the oil appeared everywhere. Writing this I am now wondering if it is actually coming out the coolant cap - I intend to try to get a bit of pipe to put over the escape nozzle below the cap to test this. Maybe it is coming from somewhere else? - but all round the header tank cap is oily and it doesn't alter the fact that the header tank is most definitely full of oil!
Anyone come across this before - any ideas - any other tests I can do?? Any advice much appreciated..
Regards
Michael
1998 806 1.9SLDT 102,000 miles (with new gearbox- no more crunching!)
1996 106 1.5d 130,000 miles (desperately needing a new water pump!!)
1.9 TD car - oil in header tank - oil cooler or Head Gasket?
Moderator: RichardW
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fastandfurryous
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Sorry to have to say it, but that is sounding more and more like the beginnings of head gasket failure to me. XUD engines tend to blow their head gasket very progressively. Symptoms will get progressively worse until it overheats all the time.
Get it fixed now, before the head overheats and warps.
Get it fixed now, before the head overheats and warps.
This is not a signature.
806 1.9TD new cylinder head and not running right
Many thanks fastandfurryous - looks like you were right - but it was worse than I feared....
I booked the car in to my local independent garage for a head gasket change, but it did not go well.....it was in for almost 3 weeks. First they took out the whole engine to get the head off and then they could see there were three cracks in the head itself. They sent it off to a head specialist to see if it was fixable but no. They then quoted me just over £1000 plus VAT to get a brand new head, transfer over all my valve gear, head gasket kit, timing belt kit, various other bits, and put it all back together again.
I had just passed its MOT and I had just spent a fair bit getting a new gearbox fitted and apart from this there was nothing wrong with the car so I said go ahead.
They got it all back together and got it running - but the head gasket was still failing!!! So they had to take it all to bits again - this time he got the head off without removing the engine. The mechanic said either it was a faulty gasket or he maybe damaged it himself on the way in......
I got them to confirm I would not have to pay for doing the job twice.
Anyway I finally got it back yesterday. But the car is not running right at all.
There are two faults and I am not sure if they are connected -
First is that its now like a normally aspirated car - no turbo boost coming in between 2000 and 3000 revs at all - it has significantly lower power and it's a bit of a struggle to get to 60mph.
It also is very rough when starting - I think its only on 3 cylinders for a while - it will not rev up, loads of smoke, and the car misses and judders for a while until its warmed up.
Obviously everything has been disturbed and put back - I wondered if it could be an injector??? (he said he noticed one was leaking so he changed the washers on them all)
It had new glow plugs about a year ago, but one failing could account for the poor starting, but not the power loss.
I used to have a 306 1.9td and it had a pipe from the intercooler to the fuel pump which senses when the turbo is boosing and signals the pump to supply more fuel - I got a hole in that pipe in that car and it felt like a normally aspriated car until it was fixed - I have not found an equivalent pipe in this car though - could it be some kind of electronic signal?
I went to see the garage this morning - the mechanic was not sure what it could be without looking at the car - so it is booked in for Monday morning.
I am driving the car with the family to Holland and back (from Aberdeen) in just over a weeks time so I really need it fixed - any ideas of anything I can check or test over the weekend would be much appreciated.
Michael
1998 806 1.9 SDLT 103,000 new MOT and new cylinder head
1996 106 1.5d 131,000 miles new water pump and running well!
I booked the car in to my local independent garage for a head gasket change, but it did not go well.....it was in for almost 3 weeks. First they took out the whole engine to get the head off and then they could see there were three cracks in the head itself. They sent it off to a head specialist to see if it was fixable but no. They then quoted me just over £1000 plus VAT to get a brand new head, transfer over all my valve gear, head gasket kit, timing belt kit, various other bits, and put it all back together again.
I had just passed its MOT and I had just spent a fair bit getting a new gearbox fitted and apart from this there was nothing wrong with the car so I said go ahead.
They got it all back together and got it running - but the head gasket was still failing!!! So they had to take it all to bits again - this time he got the head off without removing the engine. The mechanic said either it was a faulty gasket or he maybe damaged it himself on the way in......
I got them to confirm I would not have to pay for doing the job twice.
Anyway I finally got it back yesterday. But the car is not running right at all.
There are two faults and I am not sure if they are connected -
First is that its now like a normally aspirated car - no turbo boost coming in between 2000 and 3000 revs at all - it has significantly lower power and it's a bit of a struggle to get to 60mph.
It also is very rough when starting - I think its only on 3 cylinders for a while - it will not rev up, loads of smoke, and the car misses and judders for a while until its warmed up.
Obviously everything has been disturbed and put back - I wondered if it could be an injector??? (he said he noticed one was leaking so he changed the washers on them all)
It had new glow plugs about a year ago, but one failing could account for the poor starting, but not the power loss.
I used to have a 306 1.9td and it had a pipe from the intercooler to the fuel pump which senses when the turbo is boosing and signals the pump to supply more fuel - I got a hole in that pipe in that car and it felt like a normally aspriated car until it was fixed - I have not found an equivalent pipe in this car though - could it be some kind of electronic signal?
I went to see the garage this morning - the mechanic was not sure what it could be without looking at the car - so it is booked in for Monday morning.
I am driving the car with the family to Holland and back (from Aberdeen) in just over a weeks time so I really need it fixed - any ideas of anything I can check or test over the weekend would be much appreciated.
Michael
1998 806 1.9 SDLT 103,000 new MOT and new cylinder head
1996 106 1.5d 131,000 miles new water pump and running well!
Whatever is wrong -
When the garage has done a headgasket job, the car is supposed to run perfect.
I dont like they had to remove the engine in the first place, then not do it in the second go.
And still things are not right.
Sounds to me as they have messed up just about anything that can be messed up - and made a big meal on you.
With that kind of money on the bill spent on the car (same garage ?) - you dont dare touch anything yourself ! Suit them instead !
When the garage has done a headgasket job, the car is supposed to run perfect.
I dont like they had to remove the engine in the first place, then not do it in the second go.
And still things are not right.
Sounds to me as they have messed up just about anything that can be messed up - and made a big meal on you.
With that kind of money on the bill spent on the car (same garage ?) - you dont dare touch anything yourself ! Suit them instead !
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
Still :
I would not touch the car as its under warranty after a repair.
That said : air in the fuel line will definately upset a diesel engine. Follow the fuel line back towards the tank, and inspect further anything suspect. That could be surface cracked hoses, or a filter housing wet from fuel. Even damaged fuel lines under the car from thoughtless lifting points during the garage jobs.
I would not touch the car as its under warranty after a repair.
That said : air in the fuel line will definately upset a diesel engine. Follow the fuel line back towards the tank, and inspect further anything suspect. That could be surface cracked hoses, or a filter housing wet from fuel. Even damaged fuel lines under the car from thoughtless lifting points during the garage jobs.
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
Thanks for the replies - the update is as follows.
Apparently the car has developed two new faults since it went in.
1. the poor starting is caused by leak at the injection pump - it is at the spindle and the garage says they can't fix it other than completely remove the pump and send it off to specialist to be checked/repaired. But we leave on holiday on Saturday so no time for that.
2. they initially thought the low power was caused by a "timing issue" but in the end they decided it was caused by .....wait for it...... a blocked exhaust...... they decoupled the front pipe from the middle and took it for a run and the power was back. I had a spare front pipe with the cat in the garage, and they supplied and fitted new middle and rear sections.
I got the car back and been driving it around for a couple of days now, including two 30 mile journeys - most of the power is definitely back but I don't think its quite as powerful as when it went in - again I would say the turbo boost is not as strong as before, but its fairly acceptable.
I just find it really annoying that the car started and drove perfect when it went in, the only fault was the oil in the coolant, but it ended up with leaking pump and needing an exhaust.
One other point was the car engine had been thoroughly pressure washed (as oil had been sprayed out of the coolant header tank cap) so that could have contributed to some of this all.
I phoned the AA technical guys and discussed it - he said it was such a big job and the car had done 100k miles so it was not unreasonable for the work to uncover other hidden faults - eg if the car was consuming oil and coolant with the head fault, then it could block up the exhausts.
One of the garage mechanics had said the car seemed to advance or retard itself sometimes when running and wondered if the injection pump had a more serious problem - but the AA guy said this could just be a mechanicial sensor detecting the air and adjusting itself to compensate... sound reasonable? I really don't want to have to fork out for a new pump...
Anyway the car does seem to be running a lot better now - its just the first start in the morning which is rough - they told me to pump the priming bulb until its hard, so I can live with that for a while.
Finally, I took it today to get the air con regassed as its not been working for a few months - Kwik-fit did the work but the compressor does not come on!! (so they didn't charge me) - as we speak it is at (another) garage who specialise in air con seeing if they can fix it before I leave for my hols....I only ventured as far as checking the fuse which was fine...
Any comments on any of the above welcome.....I'm getting a bit fed up with this car!
Michael
Apparently the car has developed two new faults since it went in.
1. the poor starting is caused by leak at the injection pump - it is at the spindle and the garage says they can't fix it other than completely remove the pump and send it off to specialist to be checked/repaired. But we leave on holiday on Saturday so no time for that.
2. they initially thought the low power was caused by a "timing issue" but in the end they decided it was caused by .....wait for it...... a blocked exhaust...... they decoupled the front pipe from the middle and took it for a run and the power was back. I had a spare front pipe with the cat in the garage, and they supplied and fitted new middle and rear sections.
I got the car back and been driving it around for a couple of days now, including two 30 mile journeys - most of the power is definitely back but I don't think its quite as powerful as when it went in - again I would say the turbo boost is not as strong as before, but its fairly acceptable.
I just find it really annoying that the car started and drove perfect when it went in, the only fault was the oil in the coolant, but it ended up with leaking pump and needing an exhaust.
One other point was the car engine had been thoroughly pressure washed (as oil had been sprayed out of the coolant header tank cap) so that could have contributed to some of this all.
I phoned the AA technical guys and discussed it - he said it was such a big job and the car had done 100k miles so it was not unreasonable for the work to uncover other hidden faults - eg if the car was consuming oil and coolant with the head fault, then it could block up the exhausts.
One of the garage mechanics had said the car seemed to advance or retard itself sometimes when running and wondered if the injection pump had a more serious problem - but the AA guy said this could just be a mechanicial sensor detecting the air and adjusting itself to compensate... sound reasonable? I really don't want to have to fork out for a new pump...
Anyway the car does seem to be running a lot better now - its just the first start in the morning which is rough - they told me to pump the priming bulb until its hard, so I can live with that for a while.
Finally, I took it today to get the air con regassed as its not been working for a few months - Kwik-fit did the work but the compressor does not come on!! (so they didn't charge me) - as we speak it is at (another) garage who specialise in air con seeing if they can fix it before I leave for my hols....I only ventured as far as checking the fuse which was fine...
Any comments on any of the above welcome.....I'm getting a bit fed up with this car!
Michael
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CitroJim
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Hi Michael,
I cannot help but think that this garage is really not very well up on old-school diesels. I rekon they ahev caused some of the problem themselves.
1. I very much doubt it. If by some remarkable chance this was the cause, you'd have diesel leaking from the pump. These seals are usually very, very reliable and the cause of failure is the bearing wearing but you'd know about that. My bet is that the poor starting is caused by all the usual suspects. Leakoff pipes and/or air leaks on the fuel supply side anywhere from the priming bulb on. The garage would have disturbed all of this doing the work.
2. Possible but unusual, in any case an "Italian Decoke" usually sorts this out!
3. Advancing and retarding itself? Well now, all this can be answered, assuming it has the Bosch semi-electronic pump, by duff sensors.
The pump is controlled, advance wise, by two sensors, the crank position (TDC) sensor and the needle lift sensor on NO. 3 injector. I just wonder if both are connected as the engine will run, albeit not very well, with either disconnected. It is worth checking the needle lift sensor as it is very easy to forget to reconnect this one after head work and it is on quite delicate wiring. Try disconnecting and reconnecting it with the engine running and see if you can hear a change in engine note. If no change then it is duff. Do the same with the TDC sensor (it is located on top of the bell-housing and has a brown three pin plug).
As I say, I'll wager that they have damaged or forgot to reconnect something in doing the work and a good systematic check may well reveal it.
Have a look in the A/C subforum for lots of advice on your A/C problems. Look out particularly for posts by AlanS and Clogzz.
I cannot help but think that this garage is really not very well up on old-school diesels. I rekon they ahev caused some of the problem themselves.
1. I very much doubt it. If by some remarkable chance this was the cause, you'd have diesel leaking from the pump. These seals are usually very, very reliable and the cause of failure is the bearing wearing but you'd know about that. My bet is that the poor starting is caused by all the usual suspects. Leakoff pipes and/or air leaks on the fuel supply side anywhere from the priming bulb on. The garage would have disturbed all of this doing the work.
2. Possible but unusual, in any case an "Italian Decoke" usually sorts this out!
3. Advancing and retarding itself? Well now, all this can be answered, assuming it has the Bosch semi-electronic pump, by duff sensors.
The pump is controlled, advance wise, by two sensors, the crank position (TDC) sensor and the needle lift sensor on NO. 3 injector. I just wonder if both are connected as the engine will run, albeit not very well, with either disconnected. It is worth checking the needle lift sensor as it is very easy to forget to reconnect this one after head work and it is on quite delicate wiring. Try disconnecting and reconnecting it with the engine running and see if you can hear a change in engine note. If no change then it is duff. Do the same with the TDC sensor (it is located on top of the bell-housing and has a brown three pin plug).
As I say, I'll wager that they have damaged or forgot to reconnect something in doing the work and a good systematic check may well reveal it.
Have a look in the A/C subforum for lots of advice on your A/C problems. Look out particularly for posts by AlanS and Clogzz.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Many thanks for that Jim. (warning - long message coming....)
I am pleased to report that the car managed to drive to Holland and back (from Aberdeen) - about 2,000 miles covered. I did not have time to take it back to a garage beforehand.
But the car still did not drive all that well and I still think under-powered...
Regarding the sensors: While on a campsite on holiday with the engine warm and running I disconnected and reconnected the connector from the injector a few times, and there was absolutely no change to the engine note. So I am thinking that sensor is duff. How easy is it to change? - does the injector itself have to come out? Is it supplied separately from an injector?
Re Jims comment regarding it being on injector 3 - the sensor is on the second injector from the left looking straight into the engine compartment from the bonnet - I thought they were numbered from the timing belt end so that would make it number 2??
Regarding the other sensor - When I got the car first a couple of years ago the rev counter would intermittently drop to zero then come back - that was a faulty TDC sensor on the bellhousing which is the second sensor mentioned in Jims answer. I changed that myself back then and it was perfect thereafter.
When I first got the car back this time, the rev counter was working fine so I thought no more of it.....but on holiday it started the same thing. It was a bit alarming at first - I was driving along the motorway around Amsterdam in the pouring rain when suddenly the rev counter dropped - the glow plug light came on (!!!!!!) then the engine check light came on (!!!!) then after about 4 seconds the rev counter would come back up, the glow plug light would go out, and the engine check light went out after another second or so. It did this quite a few times over the three weeks, but only in the rain...! (maybe something to do with overall electric load with lights, wipers, fan on)..
So the TDC sensor seems to be working only intermittently at best and I will get one ordered up.
Not sure about the glow plug light making an appearance though - as well as coming on as described above, on about 4 occasions, the glow plug light did not come on for starting or just flashed on for insufficient time - I found what I think is the control box (far left side (timing belt side) of engine on the sidewall with a red pull out lever to get it off) There were a few grubby looking connectors so gave it all a good dose of WD40 and it did seem to improve things.
So after getting safely back.....the bill from the garage was waiting for me .....and it rather took my breath away.....I originally had been quoted somewhere about £1100 plus VAT which is about £1300, and I said go ahead. I did not write the figure down though. All figures quoted now are including VAT. The total bill is £1879.37 which is £579 more than this quote. (pretty much more than the car is worth I would think).
There was the whole story about them having to do the head gasket twice and I asked them if they were staying within their quote - they said of course I wouldn't have to pay for them doing it twice - it would be a "wee bit more than the quote but not too much" was what the guy said. Then the car was put back to them as it was not running right and they had it for another 3 days during which time they fitted a new exhaust, which I did say to go ahead with.
Of the total, £178 is for the exhaust parts (which seems very steep - I supplied the front pipe myself and they supplied middle and rear sections), and a total of 3.5 hours for the second trip to the garage to get it running right = £144 but that includes fitting the exhaust). So that still leaves about £257 more than quoted - maybe thats the "wee bit more"?? The main part of the work was 20 hours.
My initial view is all the work they did on that second trip was to rectify the faults they had caused anyway - and they didn't find the sensor problems. For info they didn't even fit the exhaust very well - it keeps clanging against the back axle everytime I go over a bump - pulled into an ATS on the way down to Holland and the guy moved it a bit but its now bumping against something else..!
Also I still have the starting problem/air leak, not had a chance to look at this yet - thinking about putting it to a diesel engine specialist I have used before in Aberdeen. The air con was looked at by another garage and the compressor was leaking!! So got a second hand one for £90, but not got it working yet.....
Many thanks for anyone managing to read this to the end.....
So to summarise, I would be very grateful if someone could tell me about changing the sensor on the injector, and confirm or otherwise if the garage has put the injectors back in the right order....also any comments on how to tackle the garage also welcome! I don't really want to put the car back there!
Regards
Michael
I am pleased to report that the car managed to drive to Holland and back (from Aberdeen) - about 2,000 miles covered. I did not have time to take it back to a garage beforehand.
But the car still did not drive all that well and I still think under-powered...
Regarding the sensors: While on a campsite on holiday with the engine warm and running I disconnected and reconnected the connector from the injector a few times, and there was absolutely no change to the engine note. So I am thinking that sensor is duff. How easy is it to change? - does the injector itself have to come out? Is it supplied separately from an injector?
Re Jims comment regarding it being on injector 3 - the sensor is on the second injector from the left looking straight into the engine compartment from the bonnet - I thought they were numbered from the timing belt end so that would make it number 2??
Regarding the other sensor - When I got the car first a couple of years ago the rev counter would intermittently drop to zero then come back - that was a faulty TDC sensor on the bellhousing which is the second sensor mentioned in Jims answer. I changed that myself back then and it was perfect thereafter.
When I first got the car back this time, the rev counter was working fine so I thought no more of it.....but on holiday it started the same thing. It was a bit alarming at first - I was driving along the motorway around Amsterdam in the pouring rain when suddenly the rev counter dropped - the glow plug light came on (!!!!!!) then the engine check light came on (!!!!) then after about 4 seconds the rev counter would come back up, the glow plug light would go out, and the engine check light went out after another second or so. It did this quite a few times over the three weeks, but only in the rain...! (maybe something to do with overall electric load with lights, wipers, fan on)..
So the TDC sensor seems to be working only intermittently at best and I will get one ordered up.
Not sure about the glow plug light making an appearance though - as well as coming on as described above, on about 4 occasions, the glow plug light did not come on for starting or just flashed on for insufficient time - I found what I think is the control box (far left side (timing belt side) of engine on the sidewall with a red pull out lever to get it off) There were a few grubby looking connectors so gave it all a good dose of WD40 and it did seem to improve things.
So after getting safely back.....the bill from the garage was waiting for me .....and it rather took my breath away.....I originally had been quoted somewhere about £1100 plus VAT which is about £1300, and I said go ahead. I did not write the figure down though. All figures quoted now are including VAT. The total bill is £1879.37 which is £579 more than this quote. (pretty much more than the car is worth I would think).
There was the whole story about them having to do the head gasket twice and I asked them if they were staying within their quote - they said of course I wouldn't have to pay for them doing it twice - it would be a "wee bit more than the quote but not too much" was what the guy said. Then the car was put back to them as it was not running right and they had it for another 3 days during which time they fitted a new exhaust, which I did say to go ahead with.
Of the total, £178 is for the exhaust parts (which seems very steep - I supplied the front pipe myself and they supplied middle and rear sections), and a total of 3.5 hours for the second trip to the garage to get it running right = £144 but that includes fitting the exhaust). So that still leaves about £257 more than quoted - maybe thats the "wee bit more"?? The main part of the work was 20 hours.
My initial view is all the work they did on that second trip was to rectify the faults they had caused anyway - and they didn't find the sensor problems. For info they didn't even fit the exhaust very well - it keeps clanging against the back axle everytime I go over a bump - pulled into an ATS on the way down to Holland and the guy moved it a bit but its now bumping against something else..!
Also I still have the starting problem/air leak, not had a chance to look at this yet - thinking about putting it to a diesel engine specialist I have used before in Aberdeen. The air con was looked at by another garage and the compressor was leaking!! So got a second hand one for £90, but not got it working yet.....
Many thanks for anyone managing to read this to the end.....
So to summarise, I would be very grateful if someone could tell me about changing the sensor on the injector, and confirm or otherwise if the garage has put the injectors back in the right order....also any comments on how to tackle the garage also welcome! I don't really want to put the car back there!
Regards
Michael
Re the injector with the senor in it - just checking on an online parts store and a normal injector is £32.91+VAT and the one with sensor is £182.22 + VAT....so that would imply you can't change the sensor by itself. Another store lists the injector with sensor for £120+VAT which is a bit cheaper.
Can anyone confirm what injector 3 is - do you count from the timing belt end or the gearbox end? The sensor is on the second injector from the timing belt end. Is it possible the garage has put it back in the wrong order and if so could it still work if I have them swapped?
Thanks
Michael
Can anyone confirm what injector 3 is - do you count from the timing belt end or the gearbox end? The sensor is on the second injector from the timing belt end. Is it possible the garage has put it back in the wrong order and if so could it still work if I have them swapped?
Thanks
Michael
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admiral51
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as you kmow the garage try looking for it on this web site
http://www.rmif.co.uk/
from the description you give they have made a pigs ear of it and its up to them to put right
i would also try your council for the trading standards number and or the CAB
try writing a letter asking for a complete breakdown of
1. the jobs done
2.the order in which they were done
3.why it was necessary to remove the engine first time but not the second
4.why the car is now not running aswell as it was when it first went in
5.what they think may be wrong with it now and how much time/cost to repair
6.explain they can have the car for diagnosing the problems but you will not pay as you have paid for them twice to repair car already.
have you got legal cover on your insurance??
check with them if they will give you some legal advice as its motoring related
a letter from your insurers legal firm requesting the above would carry more weight
not sure if you take car elsewhere the garage can be held liable unless you offer them chance to fix problems first
EDIT::
if they had engine out then a/c compressor was removed/pipes undone where was it leaking from- chances are they damaged it taking it off/putting it back in for a penny .......
just a thought re insurance if car cant be safely driven how about a courtesy car for the duration of repairs/legal discussions
seems a fair question to ask your insurers first then you can explain all the problems that prompted you to need their assistance
colin
http://www.rmif.co.uk/
from the description you give they have made a pigs ear of it and its up to them to put right
i would also try your council for the trading standards number and or the CAB
try writing a letter asking for a complete breakdown of
1. the jobs done
2.the order in which they were done
3.why it was necessary to remove the engine first time but not the second
4.why the car is now not running aswell as it was when it first went in
5.what they think may be wrong with it now and how much time/cost to repair
6.explain they can have the car for diagnosing the problems but you will not pay as you have paid for them twice to repair car already.
have you got legal cover on your insurance??
check with them if they will give you some legal advice as its motoring related
a letter from your insurers legal firm requesting the above would carry more weight
not sure if you take car elsewhere the garage can be held liable unless you offer them chance to fix problems first
EDIT::
if they had engine out then a/c compressor was removed/pipes undone where was it leaking from- chances are they damaged it taking it off/putting it back
in for a penny .......just a thought re insurance if car cant be safely driven how about a courtesy car for the duration of repairs/legal discussions
seems a fair question to ask your insurers first then you can explain all the problems that prompted you to need their assistancecolin
Last edited by admiral51 on 02 Aug 2007, 19:23, edited 1 time in total.
I have to agree with Colin ...
That garage work has got out of hand as has their invoice on their job
Stand up and fight for your rights. Enough is enough.
If you dont do it properly now, you will never learn to defend yourself.
Forget your excuses and get 'em. You have a very good case.
For the injector with sensor : its the only one of the 4 injectors which have an electric connection.
But please do not repair the car yourself. You may have to leave your car for third party opinons and checks in your case against the garage. Dont even mention a single word about your fiddling and checking. That is really no-no-no-no on warranty jobs.
That garage work has got out of hand as has their invoice on their job
Stand up and fight for your rights. Enough is enough.
If you dont do it properly now, you will never learn to defend yourself.
Forget your excuses and get 'em. You have a very good case.
For the injector with sensor : its the only one of the 4 injectors which have an electric connection.
But please do not repair the car yourself. You may have to leave your car for third party opinons and checks in your case against the garage. Dont even mention a single word about your fiddling and checking. That is really no-no-no-no on warranty jobs.
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
Hello - many thanks for the replies.
I wrote them a two page letter and said if they did not have the facilities to diagnose the problem I wanted them to arrange for the car to go somewhere that could. I also asked them to reissue the invoice back at the quoted price.
They called me and said they had booked the car into a Diesel Engine specialist in Aberdeen - so they took it in on Tuesday and it was coming up with 5 fault codes - none of the sensors were working - but they diagnosed an electrical fault, probably a broken wire in the engine loom which is causing a positive short to earth which is preventing the sensors sending their signals in - and it is somehow related to the glow plugs as well, as the light sometimes comes on when you are driving.
The guy who took it in did say the car was definitely running "flat" on the way in, and the warning lights started to come on for him when he was driving home as they had been wiggling the wires...
So they worked on the car yesterday and when I called at 5 they said they had sorted the wiring fault but still 4 codes coming up - they said when they test the sensors individually they are working fine though. So today they are going to to a compression test.
The other thing I wondered is could the timing belt be one tooth out, which would make the car underpowered and would the sensors not then return signals out of range and thus trigger the fault codes?
Regards
Michael Day 24 of 806 in the garage .....
106 going well......
I wrote them a two page letter and said if they did not have the facilities to diagnose the problem I wanted them to arrange for the car to go somewhere that could. I also asked them to reissue the invoice back at the quoted price.
They called me and said they had booked the car into a Diesel Engine specialist in Aberdeen - so they took it in on Tuesday and it was coming up with 5 fault codes - none of the sensors were working - but they diagnosed an electrical fault, probably a broken wire in the engine loom which is causing a positive short to earth which is preventing the sensors sending their signals in - and it is somehow related to the glow plugs as well, as the light sometimes comes on when you are driving.
The guy who took it in did say the car was definitely running "flat" on the way in, and the warning lights started to come on for him when he was driving home as they had been wiggling the wires...
So they worked on the car yesterday and when I called at 5 they said they had sorted the wiring fault but still 4 codes coming up - they said when they test the sensors individually they are working fine though. So today they are going to to a compression test.
The other thing I wondered is could the timing belt be one tooth out, which would make the car underpowered and would the sensors not then return signals out of range and thus trigger the fault codes?
Regards
Michael Day 24 of 806 in the garage .....
106 going well......