Loss of power at low revs - 1.4 HDI.

dr_nickc · Unread post by **dr_nickc** » 31 Mar 2007, 22:14

I have a problem with my wife's car.

It is a C3. with the 1.4 HDI engine, and more and more frequently, there just seems to be no power at low revs. It is as if the Turbo has dissapeared. Then as the revs rise (normally about 2000 to 2500 rpm), the turbo comes in with a wallop.

I am assuming, there is a sensor gone a bit amiss, but the engine management light does not come on, so I guess there is no error message to read.

Can anybody point me in the right direction please?

Thanks in advance.

Nick.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 01 Apr 2007, 10:10

SWMBO has a 1.4HDi C3 as her Driving School car. Quite an engine that one 8)

From the symptoms you have, the EGR valve will be a very good place to start, it sounds like it is partially stuck open. Other than that, check the whole induction tract for air leaks.

meexi · Unread post by **meexi** » 01 Apr 2007, 14:15

mine has the same problem as yours not very good on wet roads as it just wheelspins to easily mines is going in for its 25000 service soon hopefully they can find a fault probebly wont be covered by warrenty either

mooseshaver · Unread post by **mooseshaver** » 02 Apr 2007, 10:59

dr_nickc wrote:It is a C3. with the 1.4 HDI engine, and more and more frequently, there just seems to be no power at low revs. It is as if the Turbo has dissapeared. Then as the revs rise (normally about 2000 to 2500 rpm), the turbo comes in with a wallop.

Is it the 8 or the 16 valve?
I think there was a recall for one of them to sort out this problem. But its so long ago I don't remember what they did to solve it.

dr_nickc · Unread post by **dr_nickc** » 02 Apr 2007, 17:34

Hi mooseshaver,

It is the 16V, 92bhp version. As citrojim says - great engine (when it works properly).

Not sure when I will get a proper chance to have a look at it - we are away this weekend.

Can someone tell me where the EGR valve is? How do I check if it is working?

Thanks,

Nick.

mooseshaver · Unread post by **mooseshaver** » 02 Apr 2007, 19:59

dr_nickc wrote:Hi mooseshaver,

It is the 16V, 92bhp version. As citrojim says - great engine (when it works properly).

Can someone tell me where the EGR valve is? How do I check if it is working?

Thanks,

Nick.

I had one of those! I miss it. Apart from loss of power, but wasn't just at low revs. Think they fitted three boost elecro valves, two EGRs and a new Turbo. Still never resolved.
Ask your dealer if they know if there was a recall. I really am sure there was a fix for what you describe.

wheeler · Unread post by **wheeler** » 02 Apr 2007, 23:08

sounds like the turbo electrovalve (located on the rear of the engine block) is sticking. If you have access to a mityvac I would apply a direct vaccum to the turbo diaphram & see if it improves it,if so then its most likely the electrovalve at fault.

Unread post by **philhoward** » 05 Apr 2007, 19:48

Do these engines use a Variable Vane turbo? If so, it could be that the vanes are stuck - actuated by another diaphragm-to-rod actuator normally at 90 degrees to the existing one. Sticking ones are (apparently) quite common.

My reasoning - the vanes help direct the exhaust flow to the impeller wheel at low boost levels to get the low rev pick up. At a certain level when the turbo/exhaust flow can support it they revert to what is normal position for a non-VV turbo. Think slow and fast modes...if yours are stick in "fast" mode, then the turbo takes a while to spool up, then comes in with a wallop. They used to call it turbo lag in the early 80s - bugger all, then everything at once.

I'm not up to speed with EGR valves, so this could well be at fault - i'm still getting to grips with EFi!!

dr_nickc · Unread post by **dr_nickc** » 08 Apr 2007, 11:16

Hi guys.

Phil was right - it is the variabe vanes stuck.

Now, does anybody know where I can get a new (cheap turbo)!

Thanks,

Nick.

Unread post by **philhoward** » 08 Apr 2007, 11:42

Burger me! I know more about turbos than I thought...

It was inspired by a mate of mine who was having trouble getting his VVT to work - and it was exactly the opposite (loads of low boost, then suddely stopped at about 2600rpm) until the played with the actuator piping and got the same result as you've got - stuck (or rather reluctant to move) vanes...

As for finding a new one...try BTN in Middlesex. Listed at £520+VAT exchange...they reckon that VVT ones aren't successful in rebuilds, hence only supply new

dr_nickc · Unread post by **dr_nickc** » 09 Apr 2007, 08:49

£520+VAT - Ouch!!!

A good second hand one would do......

Just seen this one on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :DBS:US:11

Not quite the same unfortunately.

Nick.

Unread post by **philhoward** » 09 Apr 2007, 09:28

I've seen them crop up on ebay - just keep looking...or even try one of these "online breakers". I know others on this forum have had success with them.

I know £520+VAT sounds like a main stealer price, but its the complexity of the VVT turbos which bumps the price up, alas...

dr_nickc · Unread post by **dr_nickc** » 21 Apr 2007, 21:37

Just thought I would let you know what happened.

I eventually managed to separate the turbo into three large chunks.

The bit with the variable vanes was full of soot. A blast with some carburettor cleaning stuff got it all nice and clean everything moved again. I put a bit a grease in there just to help out.

The car is now running nicely again! Pulling up hills in just about any gear.

Regards,
Nick.

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 21 Apr 2007, 23:50

And now you know how burnt grease will smell like

Mind you the turbo gets red hot when you're caning the engine uphill.
Greasing the turbo will be like putting butter on a red hot frying pan !

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Loss of power at low revs - 1.4 HDI.

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