A few Q's about my Xantia.

TehAgent · Post by **TehAgent** » 29 Mar 2007, 15:25

Right, i have a few questions about my Xantia 1.9 TD 97-98

1. How fast should a Xantia suspension raise, on first start? (IE: if you leave it over night, then start it in the morning)

2. On trying to start my car. i have to wait for the Click after the glow plug light has gone out, or the car refuses to start, it turns over, but doesn't fire (basically the same as if you don't put in your code for the Immobiliser and try to start the engine.) I changed the glow plugs in January and it has been like this since then. it also smokes a bit, but only on the first start of the day. smoke is a white color, also on first start it chugs like the glow-plugs are going, but is fine for the rest of the day. could it be air in the fuel pipe? i have seen bubbles from the fuel filter to the throttle cable thingy, as i have a clear pipe linking the two.

3. What is the correct height at driving position? I'm dead sure my car is sitting to high at the rear.

*edit*

4. does ware on the brake pads effect the ABS warning light on the dash board? my front drivers side pads and disk need replacing. i was just wondering if this is causing my ABS light on the dash to stay on, its only the drivers side that needs the work, but I'm replacing both, as you can only get the parts in a pack.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 29 Mar 2007, 15:35

1. If your car is low in the morning when you go to start it, then I'd say your anti-sink sphere is flat.
Start the car, get it up to height, open the boot, turn the car off and sit in the boot. It should sink down and then within 30 seconds rise back up if the anti-sink is ok.
Check the accumulator for ticking at the front of the engine as I've found both the anti-sink and accumulator are normally missed in sphere changes as they don't affect the ride so aren't noticed.

2. Sounds like your glow plugs aren't working properly, check they're wired up properly and nothing is broken, it could be that you got a duff batch.

TehAgent · Post by **TehAgent** » 29 Mar 2007, 15:42

Xac wrote:1. If your car is low in the morning when you go to start it, then I'd say your anti-sink sphere is flat.

i thought Xantias were supposed to drop down on there own, when the engine is not running?

Start the car, get it up to height, open the boot, turn the car off and sit in the boot. It should sink down and then within 30 seconds rise back up if the anti-sink is OK.

Yeah that bit works fine, its a bit of a party piece with my friends.

Check the accumulator for ticking at the front of the engine as I've found both the anti-sink and accumulator are normally missed in sphere changes as they don't affect the ride so aren't noticed.

Cant hear no knocking, or tapping so guess it might be something else. usually takes about 3 - 4 Min's to raise some times.

2. Sounds like your glow plugs aren't working properly, check they're wired up properly and nothing is broken, it could be that you got a duff batch.

God i hope not. my hands are still recovering from the last change.

P.S

I edited my post and added some more. pressed the submit button by accident. was aiming for the preview one..

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 29 Mar 2007, 15:48

Xantias after Aug 94 had anti-sink which stops them sinking when the engine isn't running.
Your LHM level is definitely right, yes?

I've read on here that a spanner with the head bent is great for changing the plugs (I just got a mechanic mate to do the one behind the fuel pump)
Halfords do some hinged headed ratchet ring spanners, dunno if they'd be any good for the job, I know the so called "glow plug spanner" isn't bent enough *rassum frassum*

When I first got my 1.9TD it was running on only 2 plugs but still started.
I tested them (possibly foolishly but hey it worked) using jump leads and seeing if they glowed properly.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 29 Mar 2007, 16:25

Your starting sounds like air in the system to me. You can test the glowplugs in situ with a test lamp or meter. They have very little resistance so the bulb will glow brightly or the meter should show about 1 ohm.

If you have a Bosch pump the condition of the leakoff pipes on the injectors is critical and will allow air into the pump.. Roto-Diesels and derivatives just leak and smell. If however air is visible in the pipe from the filter to the pump it may be getting in before - and the filter itself and the priming bulb are likely candidates.

The sit in the boot test is to test the accumulator not the so called anti-sink sphere. The anti-sink sphere in only used to make up loss in the circuit after the anti-sink valve which would cause a loss of pressure when the anti-sink valve opened after starting the engine. If its flat the back will drop when the valve opens and also rear brake pressure will not be available until the rather small pump has re-pressurised the circuit.

Is the car dropping right down when left? Or is it simply rising a little to adjust to your weight when you get into it?

TehAgent · Post by **TehAgent** » 29 Mar 2007, 19:04

It drops right down, when left over night, or for about 4 hours or more.

I would think it is air in the system to do with the starting problems, but not sure how to fix it, if it is a air leak into the tubing. where would i start looking, and what would i be looking for? No split pipes are visible.

Anyone know the correct height of the rear of a Xantia SX. or would this be a side effect of the aforementioned problem?

Just about to check if i have a brake pad warning light. if i do have one, i'm wondering why it hasn't worked just yet, and would this be a cause for the fault in the ABS light staying on?

ABS was intermittent, now it just never goes out once the ignition is on,

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 29 Mar 2007, 19:07

When you checked the brake pads and noticed they need changing, were the sensors plugged into properly?

My 1.9 didn't have any, and as soon as I fitted new ones with new pads and discs, the light started flickering so there's a wiring fault there.

TehAgent · Post by **TehAgent** » 29 Mar 2007, 19:13

didn't need to check the brake pads, the noise gave it away lol, so I'm now looking at new pads and disks, though the ABS is definitely off. found that out over the winter, when the car just locked up on braking.

Had it on a 4 post lift, but the sensors didn't look damages and the cables look fine, but i know this doesn't mean that they are OK. Unfortunately i don't have a Multi meter. and even if i did, not sure how to use one.

You can tell i have a MOT coming up. all the problems are coming out of the wood work.

just last week i had the throttle cable snap and a rear tail bulb go. both fixed now though, but i think the car knows. lol

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 29 Mar 2007, 19:37

How long does it take for the suspension to reach normal height after starting ? If it's less than 30 seconds you don't have anything to worry about.

When you say it goes down, does it just drop a few inches over night (which can be normal) or is it RIGHT down so its hard on the bump stops ? Both ends ?

Mine does drop a couple of inches at both ends over night, although during the 8 hours I park at work it doesn't drop visibly.

Regards,
Simon

TehAgent · Post by **TehAgent** » 29 Mar 2007, 19:50

Mandrake wrote:How long does it take for the suspension to reach normal height after starting ? If it's less than 30 seconds you don't have anything to worry about.

If its in the morning, it takes about 3 to 4 minutes , first the back raises, then the front. when the front goes up, its in small increments but smooth, (if that makes sense)

When you say it goes down, does it just drop a few inches over night (which can be normal) or is it RIGHT down so its hard on the bump stops ? Both ends ?

Well, just been out and done a simple test, i just got in the car, and moved it gently off the drive way (engine running), its definitely not got any hydraulic fluid in the spheres, as the suspension is rock solid. either way, its not raised, even though the selector is in the drive position.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 29 Mar 2007, 23:33

TehAgent wrote: Anyone know the correct height of the rear of a Xantia SX. or would this be a side effect of the aforementioned problem?

http://homepages.igrin.co.nz/simon/imag ... ia_height/

Just about to check if i have a brake pad warning light. if i do have one, i'm wondering why it hasn't worked just yet, and would this be a cause for the fault in the ABS light staying on?

ABS was intermittent, now it just never goes out once the ignition is on,

Nope, the ABS light is unrelated to brake pad wear.

If the ABS light comes on during driving you have an intermitant problem with one of the ABS sensor or cables. If it comes on and stays on immediately after starting now then the intermitant problem has just become permanent. (Such as an obvious open or short circuit on one of the sensors)

Have a search of the forum, there is lots of good information on tracking down faulty ABS sensors, including the pinouts for the sensors on the ABS computer connector.

Regards,
Simon

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 29 Mar 2007, 23:37

TehAgent wrote:
Mandrake wrote:How long does it take for the suspension to reach normal height after starting ? If it's less than 30 seconds you don't have anything to worry about.

If its in the morning, it takes about 3 to 4 minutes , first the back raises, then the front. when the front goes up, its in small increments but smooth, (if that makes sense)

3-4 minutes ? Thats highly abnormal. Either there is a LOT of leakage in the system, or the pump is buggered, or both.

(Correction - or you could have an air leak on the input side of the pump - check the hose from the LHM tank to the pump carefully for fit and hairline cracks)

Even if you fully depressurize the system maually (thus defeating the anti-sink system) it should still take under 2 minutes to lift.

How long before the stop light goes out ?

More diagnosis will be needed to figure this one out...

When you say it goes down, does it just drop a few inches over night (which can be normal) or is it RIGHT down so its hard on the bump stops ? Both ends ?
Well, just been out and done a simple test, i just got in the car, and moved it gently off the drive way (engine running), its definitely not got any hydraulic fluid in the spheres, as the suspension is rock solid. either way, its not raised, even though the selector is in the drive position.

Yep, sounds like its losing nearly all its pressure in just a few hours. On an anti-sink car this can only really be caused by either a faulty anti-sink valve, or suspension cylinders with high leakage - but the thing is you wouldn't expect this to happen to both front AND rear....hmm..

When it goes down, which end goes down first ? Does one end go down a lot sooner, and how soon after switchoff ?

Regards,
Simon

TehAgent · Post by **TehAgent** » 30 Mar 2007, 01:55

sorry, i need to rectify something. the car is fully lowered on the front, that's why it feels like the suspension is rock solid. just been out to the car as i found a diagram that shows what the LHM pump looks like.

Well, its got what appears to be an "oil" leek. I'm not sure so don't quote me on this one, but it looks like its coming from the Big nut. where the Metal pipe enters the top of the pump, as can be seen HERE in this picture. (In this picture, its got a blue mark on it) Thanks to Alan S, for posting his photo album. hope he doesn't mind me linking to it.

Front drops first. even when doing cit-robics, its always, rear to raise first and then front. then its front to lower first, then the rear.

Will time the STOP light tomorrow. as I'm tired now and need me beauty sleep.

P.S
Thanks for the diagram of the height adjustment table. but really couldn't get my head around it. if you don't mind, Whats the height from the bottom of the tire of the rear wheel of your car. to the top arch of the wheel arch? when in the driving position with out weight in the boot? Just so i have something to compare it too

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 30 Mar 2007, 09:35

It's either a 17mm or 19mm nut, try tightening it, otherwise you can get a replacement O ring from your local Citroen dealer for about 90p
Ask them to bring up their exploded diagram of the pump and point out the O ring to them.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 30 Mar 2007, 10:24

There's a superb technical guide on the Citroen DIY site - follow the links at the top left.

http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/

I think your car should stay at the normal running height for several days - this is what anti-sink is supposed to do. So if its not it sounds like a fault with the anti-sink valves - but its unlikely those at both ends would fail together.

The ride height with the engine running and the car settled should be the same irrespective of load - that is taken care of by the height correctors - which actually are very sensitive. My BX Estate (which has a less sophisticated linkage than a Xantia) will rise while I'm filling it with fuel to compensate for the additional weight! (In this case powered by the accumulator.)

The rise time will increase as the spheres age - but if they rupture it gets quicker (as with no gas they don't empty over time)