HDI 2000 Xantia Estate - Rattle from Rear

CX5001 · Post by **CX5001** » 15 Mar 2007, 17:36

New Postie ! I've owned my 2000 HDi Xantia Forte Estate from new and its only done 45000 miles. Since this is my 'retirement car' I've looked after it but it now has the classic 'ball-bearings in a tin can' noise from the rear.
I changed all 6 spheres in the last six months ( GFS units ) . Since some little time after that the rattling began and now its driving me crackers.
On the driveway the suspension performs exactly as it should - doesn't sink overnight - red light off within 10 seconds - and there are no noises from rear bearings or strutts when its going up or down. Underneath I cannot find anything loose. I know that the rear arm bearings are the classic cause of these types of noise but I cannot detect any play by pulling on the wheel when its hanging free and I cannot see any sign of tyre scuff or rear wheels angling inwards. I've checked the brake pads etc.
I guess I want your opinions on the likelyhood of the bearings being at fault on a car thats only done 45000 miles. If there are any other possible solutions then please advise before I admit final defeat and book the car into the local Citroen specialist.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 15 Mar 2007, 18:15

Exhaust damper noise ?

slim123 · Post by **slim123** » 15 Mar 2007, 18:54

Hi Mike.

Forgive Anders for his explanation

I think he means what we call the the baffles in the rear silencer, get hold of the tail pipe and give it a violent wiggle from side to side, listen for the noise. The baffles coming loose would be typical in a car with fairly regular use but low miles.

If not this then I would check the brakes and give them a good old strip and clean up.

I dont think that the rear arm bearings will be at fault as this is normally a cracking noise rather than a rattle, problems here normally happen at around 100'000 miles, although I have changed the rear arms on a car with only 40'000 genuine miles, in both arms the bearings were completly shot, but this is rare at low milage. Also I have seen cars with 200'000 and the original arms are still fitted and working perfect!

In general the suspension cylinders have nothing in them to make any noise. The spheres (in theory) can if the damper is loose, it will rattle about, but again this is very rare.

My bet goes with Anders and his exhaust damper,

Regards
Slim.

Stewart(oily) · Post by **Stewart(oily)** » 15 Mar 2007, 19:06

My relatives Xantia has an irritating buzzing noise from the rear which stops when I place my boot on the tailpipe, I have been considering creating a longitudinal dent in the rear box to trap what must be a baffle moving, though half a litre of epoxy might do a better job (they dont get that hot)
Stewart

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 15 Mar 2007, 19:39

Oh yes please forgive me

(what did I explain

)

CX5001 · Post by **CX5001** » 16 Mar 2007, 17:40

I checked out the silencer , gave it a violent shake from side to side and up and down, but no rattle at all. ( I have to say that for a six year old car the underside looks like new.)
I had another look at the rear brakes and can't see anything wrong, but I am going to disassemble and clean them tomorrow.
There is one question I have concerning the offside rear brake disc - when I remove the wheel and grasp the brake disc it is loose - I can jiggle it slightly at the rim of the disc ( opposite the locating peg ). Is this right ? The nearside brake disc is not like that.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 16 Mar 2007, 21:38

The wheel nuts hold the brake discs onto the car, but when the wheels are off, there's two M6 countersunk screws that stop the discs falling off.
Could be these screws are loose.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 16 Mar 2007, 21:58

These retainig srews are supposed to be a loose fit. If you tighten them up chances are you will have to drill them out at next brakes service. Its a common misunderstanding that garages tighten up these screws - which causes a frowning mad job for regular brakes services

They will never rattle because of centrifugal forces when wheel/disc is turning.

Check the door lock posts. My old CX had an awfull rattle from one rear door even when properly closed - because of a worn plastic bush on the lock post.
Took me months to trace down that problem

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 16 Mar 2007, 23:08

I should imagine that 4 hefty bolts holding the wheel to the hub also help keep the brake disc in firm contact with the hub!

Take the screws out and then try and change the wheel! - its fun when you have to align the holes in the wheel, the holes in the disc and the holes in the hub! Keeping the disc attached to the hub will also prevent any dirt falling into the space between the disc and the hub which could prevent the disc sitting flat. (It might distort and cause juddering)

simonelsey · Post by **simonelsey** » 18 Mar 2007, 00:00

I would go with the exhaust Buffles going or cat . Thinking about it I had a Carina with same problem , It was the exhaust heat shield . Only did it whilst driving didnt matter how i moved the exhaust when car stationary couldnt get the noise replicated . I just drove like it for 100,000 miles until someone wrote it for me at 250,000 miles .

Then I brought me xsara

f00lzz · Post by **f00lzz** » 18 Mar 2007, 18:01

My money is on a rattling tailgate

kip · Post by **kip** » 19 Mar 2007, 06:14

My fathers Xantia had a shocking rattle from the rear. Did not worry him, as he is hard of hearing, but it was driving anyone else who was unfortunate enough to ride in the car.

I found it was the the rear wiper was loose. By that I mean the whole assembly. Had to take off the trime to tighten the bolts holding the wiper motor to the tailgate.

Kip

CX5001 · Post by **CX5001** » 19 Mar 2007, 17:58

Hi guys, Status report :
I checked out the rear brakes and everything is OK - no rattles there.
I disassembled the tailgate door - nothing loose and the windscreen wiper mechanism firm and rattle free.
Rear door mechanisms - nothing to report there either.

When driving the rattles are most apparent when the drivers rear wheel hits a hole.
Also , on the subject of suspension cyclinders - when I changed the rear centre sphere I had the car up on axle stands with the pressure released, and if I grasped the left or right spheres and shook them the strutt assembly was loose and rattled a lot. Is this right ? Could the strutt be slow acting on the expansion stroke ??

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 19 Mar 2007, 18:09

Struts are meant to be a loose fit. As they have the weight of the back of the car on them I think you would notice any slow expansion or contraction. If you're in any doubt - you could try raising the car then setting it to low and go to the back and watch to see if it drops level or one side first.

I think Xantias have subframe mounts and a self steering back axle (relies on the subframe twisting on its mounts) so it could be worth having a good look at them.

Silly one: - Spare wheel and its cradle

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 19 Mar 2007, 18:18

CX5001 wrote:... and if I grasped the left or right spheres and shook them the strutt assembly was loose and rattled a lot. Is this right ? Could the strutt be slow acting on the expansion stroke ??

Completely normal.

The suspension cylinder strut is held in place only by the weight of the car, when its on wheels much like a coil spring on ordinary sprung cars.

The suspension cylinder is under constant hydraulic pressure equal to the weight of the car on that wheel. Thats the basic functional principle of the system.
Subframe : http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 221150.gif
suspension arm : http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 344100.gif
Cylinder : http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 347100.gif