Xantia Activa Alternator Removal?

[CitroJim]

Changing my timing belt on the Activa today I found a real nasty

I noticed the auxillary belt was running out of line on the hydraulic pump pulley and was riding one "vee" off with the belt hanging over the edge of the pulley. I thought this was just bad installation and after I did the timing belt, I moved the auxillary belt to where it shoud be on the pump pulley.

On starting up, the belt moved straight off the hydraulic pump pully to end up hanging one "vee" off again.

Closer inspection showed the alternator pulley to be running out of line and I can see where the belt has been picking up on the alternator pulley and grinding the belt. The alternator looks relatively recent. It looks to be both running out of line and too far to the left as the auxillary belt appears "slewed" between the tensioners. Too far let to the tune of about 2mm.

Two questions? Has this car been fitted with the wrong alternator? I'd be grateful if someone with access to pr.net could look it up and perhaps cross reference it to more popular Xantia Models. The RP number is 8293.

Next, how is the alternator removed from it's seemingly impossible-to-remove location between the A/C compressor and the hydraulic pump? It looks as if the hydraulic pump has to be completely removed along with its rigid pipework and the ECU box to gain any kind of space that just might allow removal Looks like a heck of a job!

Many thanks all.

[DickieG]

I've had a look on PR Net, there are loads of alternative models for each engine but as far as I can make out the turbo alternator is different to the non turbo for instance.

The location of the alternator on that engine makes it a right pig to get to, I've just bought a second Activa with a duff alternator which was being offered for spares as a result of it. As you say it does look as if the pump and pipework needs to be removed in order to get it out

As a thought, has the alternator been fitted the wrong side of a mounting bracket for instance? (I can't look at mine at the mo as I've left both of them parked at work so I don't annoy the neighbours )

[CitroJim]

Thanks Dickie,

I did wonder if it has been mounted wrongly but with the pump blocking the way I can't see but I can see a bolt with a lot of exposed thread so something is decidedly not right

I was idly wondering whilst cooking the girls their tea if it might be easier to remove the aircon compressor and slip the alternator out from below but I don't know if the aircon pipes are flexible enough to move it out of the way.

Tomorrow looks like a fun day then

Still, at least you'll know how to remove yours in the not too distant future

[Mandrake]

Hi,

Does the activa have the alternator in the same place as the normal 8valve?

http://homepages.igrin.co.nz/simon/imag ... ngine1.jpg

(EG just below the hydraulic pump)

If so then you should be able to remove it without removing the pump, (I've done it before) but it is a tight squeeze. The trick is to get the two steel hydraulic lines way out of the way.

If you unbolt ALL the mounting brackets for those two steel pipes all the way down the front of the engine and across to the pressure regulator, when you unbolt them from the pump they will move right out of the way without stressing or putting any permanent bends in the pipes.

Now you should have just enough room to manuevre the alternator out...

If you're still really stuck, remove the hydraulic pump, (it's not much extra work once those steel pipes are removed) DON'T remove the aircon compressor.

Regards,
Simon

[CitroJim]

Yes, exactly like yours Simon except on the Activa there is nowhere the room you have due to the intercooler. You could almost have a party between your alternator and the rad

Thanks for the advice on moving the hydraulic pipes out of the way and the caution on the Aircon Compressor. I'll leave it well alone!

[CitroJim]

I am a very happy person I have successfully removed the alternator without disconnecting any hydraulic pipes at all. Virtually the whole of the rest of the car came apart but not the hydraulics.

Here is how, briefly:

1. Disconnect battery, remove wheel and mudshield.
2. Remove the aux belt and the spring tensioner.
3. Remove Engine and Suspension ECUs and remove the ECU box.
4. Remove the upper aux belt jockey wheel
5. Remove the ignition amplifier complete with bracket
6. remove three sets of HP pipe "P" clip bolts and nuts.
7. Remove the top bracket that holds the topmost HP pipe "P" Clips
8. Remove the two alternator through-bolts.
9. Remove the two HP pump through-bolts.
10. Remove the nut holding the LH top engine mount to the mount rubber on the wing.
11. Jack up the engine as high as possible (about 1 3/4 inches)
12. Pull the HP pump up and to the side, taking care not to stress the HP pipes.
13. Withdraw the alternator out between the HP pump and the Intercooler hose. It looks tricky but it will just come out with a bit of fiddling.

Phew!

Reassembly is a reversal etc!!!

A BoL 4 spanner job and it took me 2 hours give or take (including thinking time).

The above is only a rough guide but if anyone wants it more detailed, I will, with pictures. It is I think generally applicable to any Xantia with the HP pump atop the alernator and an intercooler.

[DickieG]

Is that all I've got to do?

[RichardW]

So what was up with the alternator then Jim?

TBH, by the time you have gone to all that effort, it would be easier to just depressure the suspension, and then whip both the HP pipes off the pump, and move it over the top of the engine - you should be able to leave the suction hose connected to avoid problems with re-priming it (I think this is what we did on my Mate's TD when we had the HP pump and alternator out to change the aux belt tensioner).

With Citroens it seems that the 'obvious' approach often seems to involve excessive dismantling, and a work around appears to present iteself. However, after you have dicked about with the work around you realise that the direct approach would have been easier in the long run.....

[CitroJim]

So what was up with the alternator then Jim?

It just looks to be the wrong one Richard. It was properly mounted in its cradle but the front face and pulley just seems to to stick out too far by about an eight of an inch. The pulley does not line up with the two tensioner jockey wheels beside it and with the belt off it was very obvious to see. I could see no way of making any lateral adjustments to correct this.

I can see what you're saying about the HP pump but as always, on the Activa, it is never that simple. Even if the HP pump was fully removed the alternator still would not come straight up due to an additional projection on the cast alternator/HP pump cradle that seems to do nothing but act as a top support for the HP pipe tray that wraps around the alternator.

I compared it to Xac's 2.1 TD which too has the HP pump above the alternator but the mounting cradle is totally different. In the case of the 2.1TD the job would be a walk in the park in comparason. I really, really tried to look for the easiest way to do it and what I did (I think!) was the only way.

I did try to move the HP pipes out of the way but one of the unions was so tight it would not budge under fair pressure It had a new pump sometime in the past and there is plenty of evidence all around the car that the mechanic who worked on it was not the most au-fait with them or with the careful touch they need I've already corrected a lot of bad work previously done.

None of the Motor Factors seem to list an alternator specific to the Activa so I'm going to see our local ECP armed with the old one and do comparasons. It is galling to have to replace an otherwsie perfectly good alternator for this reason though

I had a PM from DickieG who suggested that a sense of humour was required to own an Activa. Never a truer word has been spoken. Good job I have In all honesty, I just love these kind of things. Really keeps the interest going

[CitroJim]

I got another alternator yesterday and had a bit of fun in our local motor factors comparing them with rulers and calipers. The old boy behind the desk got all confused and bothered because nowhere is the Activa listed in his catalogues

In the end, I found that the alternator for the Xantia 2.0i 16V looked most promising. It is somewhat smaller and is easier to fit than the old one that came out.

The Motor Factor seemed at first reluctant to swap the alternator without me paying a £100 surcharge because it was not a "like for like" exchange Luckily,because he knew me from my many visits he took an opportuniny to have a bit of fun with me. When my jaw dropped to the counter he relented 8)

[Skull]

Removed my Alternator (£795 @ Citroen ) today on my HDi @ almost 138K it has stopped charging.

I found a similar problem for access I've ended up removing auxiliary belt and tensioner to get access to the 4 x 16mm mounting bolts (2 either side). When everything is disconnected the alternator is trapped - my solution was to remove the intercooler intake pipe and oil filter , this leaves enough room to wiggle the alternator out to the middle of the radiator and freedom .... now just waiting on a quote from a Auto Electrician to see if it's repairable or I need a replacement ....

[admiral51]

Well Skull i think you deserve the reward for April for resurrection of the longest thread without a post, 12 years 1 month and a 2 weeks give or take

Good news on the removal, hope the replacement is cheap and stress free

[Skull]

Thank you Admiral

It was the Top thread on google

[Skull]

VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] My Xantia HDi (BOSCH 150 Watt)

VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] My Xsara HDi (currently non-runner MAKE UNKNOWN?)

Both the Alternators for the above have the same part no. (5705 4F) despite visually different casings (both cars have air con) ?

Could I possibly have found a replacement on my driveway ?