XUD TD Bosch pump problem

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 08 Mar 2007, 08:16

'Er indoors arrived (just) home last night in her 70k miles Xantia XUDTD, with clanking from the Bosch inj pump, running rough and lotsa white smoke and no real go - when it runs OK (briefly), all 4 cyls function. I have since checked the usual: fuel quality (no water) and filters. All is OK.

So I guess it is a pump change...

Any other thoughts - also anyone got an XUD TD Bosch pump on their hands (pref non immob)?

Cheers.

Brian UK · Post by **Brian UK** » 08 Mar 2007, 09:17

White smoke would be due to retarded injection timing for some reason. Worth checking the timing belt, and pump sprocket, in case something is loose. At 70k the belt is due for renewal very soon anyway.
The pumps themselves normally are very reliable, and go on for 200k and more.

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 08 Mar 2007, 09:20

Thanks Brian - the belt was changed recently - I have the bills. The pump has been noisyish since I bought the car, and now clacks away merrily.

White smoke would be due to retarded injection timing for some reason. Worth checking the timing belt, and pump sprocket, in case something is loose. At 70k the belt is due for renewal very soon anyway.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 08 Mar 2007, 09:59

If its rattling, as Brian suggests, the pump sprocket could be loose. White smoke is caused by unburnt fuel, but if it is running retarded the engine itself will be very quiet and gutless and it will get hot! And I would concur, these pumps are usually very reliable, although theres always a first time.

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 08 Mar 2007, 10:55

As above really, check that the sprocket is on properly and it's timed up properly- are you absolutely certain it's the pump making the noise and not the engine? If it's out of time it'll make a hell of a clattery racket.

It could, of course, have been slightly mistimed when you bought the car, and now following the belt change be even more out of time.

before investing in another pump you could try disconnecting the cut off or fuel line and then cranking the engine over to listen to the pump without the motor itself running- see if it still sounds clattery. preferably use a bit of hosepipe as a stethoscope on the body of the pump when the engine's running, then do it again when the engine's cranking but not firing.

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 08 Mar 2007, 10:56

OK.

Thanks guys for the guidance. I know how long these pumps normally last as I have a Xantia 1.9TD Activa with over 250k on the clock. I'll post the results of the pully check.

Am now taking the cover off....

running retarded the engine itself will be very quiet and gutless and it will get hot! And I would concur, these pumps are usually very reliable, although theres always a first time.

KP · Post by KP » 08 Mar 2007, 11:29

I have one but its really only suitable for a rebuild as far as i know.

Posting it to france wouldnt be cheap mind!

8304 · Post by **8304** » 08 Mar 2007, 12:25

check the crank pulley bolt these make all sorts of noises when they come loose trust me i know mine has a habbit of it!!!!

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 08 Mar 2007, 13:27

Pump pulley nice and tight - has clearly not been demounted... crank pulley nut also tight - no sign of any oli leak from the bottom seal which would the case if the pulley was floating around. I will check the crank pulley with certaint as soon as I have removed more plastic.

I have found a '95/'96 pre-key pad pump with 120k on it which will do nicely, and not expensive, to keep as a spare should it not be the problem. Will keep the subject line updated. Until yesterday the car went very well indeed.

check the crank pulley bolt these make all sorts of noises when they come loose trust me i know mine has a habbit of it!!!!

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 08 Mar 2007, 16:16

OK guys...

You were all pretty well spot on the button... the bottom pulley bolt had never been correctly tightened be the previous DIY owner (a lady[?] dog breeder from Bacup who changed the cambelt herself - or rather didn't...).

It appeared tight, but upon demounting the pulley, it could be undone with fingers... what is strange is that the bolt didn't come right out.

The pullley is (-expletive removed-) [French]; also the crank Woodruff key slot is much enlarged. The timing cog will be OK after I labouriously file up a bespoke Woodruff ket from gauge plate, and carefully degrease and assemble the lot with 638 Locktite... in fact it's the only choice, since a new crank and strip is not on for the value of it all. As most of you pointed out, it is unheard of for a Bosch pump to let go at under 100K. The timing was clearly around +10º retarded (luckily not advanced, otherwise I guesee that the valves wound have made violent love with the pistons.

http://www.topcorp1.com/swing/top.html

Thank you all once again - I have bid £35 for a apre pump, so nothing wasted. I have tried to post a piccy of the crank and timing pinion.

Cheers[/img]

Brian UK · Post by **Brian UK** » 08 Mar 2007, 23:26

It has certainly made a mess of the keyway in the crankshaft. Best of luck with it.

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 09 Mar 2007, 00:44

Thanks Brian UK.

With much care with the fabrication of a Woodruff key to fit into the messy slot(s), Locktite 238 and the whole degreased, glued and tightened until the bolt thread is stripped and then backed off a quarter turn(':twisted:'), I am confident it will hold up OK. After all, it has stayed together like this fingertight for around 5k or so.

The advice was good, as it caused me to take a closer look at the pulley, which certainly saved catastrophic engine failure.

Thanks again.

It has certainly made a mess of the keyway in the crankshaft. Best of luck with it.

Brian UK · Post by **Brian UK** » 09 Mar 2007, 09:15

At least it's not as bad as the garage which sheared off the bolt, tried to drill it out (offcentre), put a different bolt in (badly) and added some sort of goo to hold it together.
It is also fortunate that you have the skills to fabricate a new key, something which many would envy.

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 09 Mar 2007, 09:56

Well Brian,

Skills are basically City & Guilds apprenticeship plus OND in electrical engineering, before Her Gracious Majesty decided that I had to go fighting for my country (Ha - that was a laugh!)

Really more a careful [tedious] filing job and then oil quenching - a Woodruff key is pretty straightforward.

Shame about apprentiships (AND all the rest).

Should the wheels fall off later, I will post it here.

At least it's not as bad as the garage which sheared off the bolt, tried to drill it out (offcentre), put a different bolt in (badly) and added some sort of goo to hold it together.
It is also fortunate that you have the skills to fabricate a new key, something which many would envy.

Post by **RichardW** » 09 Mar 2007, 10:31

ISTR someone in a similar situation (with a 405?) decided they were never likely to need to change the belt again and welded the pulley to the crank

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