Rear drum removal

visagti · Post by **visagti** » 27 Feb 2007, 20:01

I have a Visa Gti that has been stood for more than a decade, I have been doing bits and bobs on it to have it on the road for next year.

At the moment the engine is out so I can't start the car and have to push it about. I don't leave the handbrake on but the brakes are sticking, because of this I decided to put the new rear and front brakes on now to make pushing about easier.

Problem I have is the rear drum will not come off, I have removed the centre dust cap, undone and removed stub axle nut and removed circlip, after all this the drum will just not come off.

There is know retaining screw on the front of the drum holding it on? I have even putt a screw driver behind drum and tried prising the drum off but nothing.

Any ideas????

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 27 Feb 2007, 20:24

Usual problem with a lip of rust on outer edge of drums, which is then held by the brake shoes ?

Try all tricks you know of to retract the shoes as much as possible. Then the drums usually slides out like magic.
An air driven rattle gun with a needle tip sometimes works miracles, by vibrating loose any rust sticking the center hole on the hub.

Post by **CitroJim** » 27 Feb 2007, 22:02

These'll be very similar to the 205 drums. They can be tricky for the reasons Anders says.

First thing is to make sure the handbrake is really as far off as possible. Maybe in the intervening time the handbrake has been on and the shoes are stuck to the drums. Release the cables at the handbrake lever end and try pushing the inners in as far as they will go.

Bendix drums have little rubber plugs to give acccess to the auto-adjuster mechanism and using a small screwdriver it may be possible to "wind off" the adjustment but the adjuster threads get very tight over the years and doing it "blind" is not easy. Girling drums, with their ratchect adjuster is easier to release but I cannot recall if these have rubber plugs to give access with the drum on.

Hammer the drums around their circumfrence as you rotate the drum and then evenly pull the drum. Keep doing this and eventually they will come. The trick is to pull the drums evenly and not allow any tilt. Rotate the drums in the normal direction of travel as this gives a tad more clearance.

In desperation, if this fails, carefully grind off the shoe retaining pin heads on the backplate until they let go. This'll allow the shoes to come out with the drums to an extent and allow them to "angle" out. It may wreck the slave cylinders but then it's likely they'll need rerplacing anyway.

Good luck! I had a similar battle-royal with rear drums on a 405 not long ago...

visagti · Post by **visagti** » 27 Feb 2007, 22:30

Car will move about but very hard to push even with 2 people.

Car was stood in someones garage for 12 years ish but when I got it home it did drive no problem but as said the drums must be a bit worn nad have rust lip round the edge.

I've put 2 of the wheel nuts on and turned to slacken off but still stiff.

Have also hit right round with hammer but this doesn't seem to have done anything either.

I will give your ideas a go tomorrow and see if I can get anywhere.

I'm reluctant to damage anything as so few of these cars on the road now (approx 30) and you really struggle to get parts for the rear, the only items I've managed to get are the drums, shoes and brake cyclinders.

Village · Post by **Village** » 28 Feb 2007, 13:04

This may seem like a daft thing to say, but you haven't got the hand brake on have you? I've done in myself (at least twice) in the past

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 28 Feb 2007, 15:11

Or the handbrake is stuck on even if lever is fully released

Post by **CitroJim** » 28 Feb 2007, 16:27

The cables may be rusted up and holding the handbrake on as well. With the cables disconnected at the lever end, try flexing them along their length to release them, especially where the outer sheath looks damaged or broken and has allowed water in. Normally the inners are nylon coated but this can damage too and rust up.

You may be able to pull the cable outers from the drum backplates to help them free off but normally the outer ferrules need drifting out once the drums are off. You may be lucky...

visagti · Post by **visagti** » 28 Feb 2007, 17:20

No handbrake definately not on.

Since I've had the car approx 1 year it's never been on and I've had a look best I can to see if stuck on even though lever down.

I never had this much trouble with my old Chevettes many moons ago, a little tap with a hammer and they were off, the good old days eh

slim123 · Post by **slim123** » 28 Feb 2007, 22:27

What you have here is a fairly common problem with all drum brake cars, made worse by not having a way of turning the shoes in from the outside.

The shoes have over the years, worn a lip into the drum, however small this is all the way round so it will make the job very tight.

The only way to remove them will be to tap around the drum to release as much as it will. Then use a puller and force the drum off, this will also rip the shoes off and break the tin washers that hold the shoes in place.

Not realy a problem, as I guess that you will be replacing the shoes anyhow, just dont forget to buy a fitting kit, this will include new pegs, springs and tin washers.

Bung all the broken bits away and fit the new bits.

Before you refit the drums, take them to an engineering workshop and bung a couple of £££ at someone, I am sure that they will put the drums on a lathe for you and take the lip off.

Regards
Slim.

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 28 Feb 2007, 23:41

There is a proper procedure for removing 205/Visa drums. You need to use a screwdriver through one of the wheel-bolt holes to ping the tensioner off the self-adjusting lever.

Looking at the drum as a clock-face, it's at around 7:30. it takes a bit of fiddling but it'll release the mechanism, the shoes will then retract, and the drum will then more or less fall off.

Whacking it with a hammer without first retracting the self adjuster will only mash the drum edges and wreck what may be a perfectly good drum!

visagti · Post by **visagti** » 01 Mar 2007, 17:49

Never heard about that before and nothing in my manual about it but will give it a go. cheers

Not bothered about the drums as all new drums, pads and cylinders going on anyway.

It's been stood for over a decade so I'm replacing as much as I can find available before it goes back on the road, all the front end ni brand new as well.

G4EIY · Post by **G4EIY** » 01 Mar 2007, 18:07

Yes Bxbodger is right, takes a little while to locate the lever.

When you have them off, take a record photo of the mechanism, then you will know what to do.

These pics should help you...

sending two pics, only one is being relayed, any idea please.

Will sent the other in the next post.

G4EIY · Post by **G4EIY** » 01 Mar 2007, 18:14

The other picture...

You need to move the small lever just below where the 7 is pointing.
Remember the other wheel will be in the other direction...

visagti · Post by **visagti** » 01 Mar 2007, 19:23

Just had a go and managed to remove but still no joy, not moving a mm.

These drums must be very worn I think.

What book are the pics from? look a lot beter than mine.

G4EIY · Post by **G4EIY** » 01 Mar 2007, 21:38

Hi,

The Pictures came from Haynes Manual 1379 - 5S2

To further assist, work in the shade or at night, get some light into the inners of the brake drum. If you have an LED on the end of a flexi rod, like the ones that connect to a USB socket.
Poke this through one of the bolt holes, look through the one at 7 o clock
Then you can position the screw driver in the required location.

Sketch below may help..

If all fails, then you nay have to break or burn the drum off.

Good Luck