Xantia Steering from hell

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CitroenNuts
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Xantia Steering from hell

Post by CitroenNuts » 10 Feb 2007, 01:02

Hi Guys I need some help on this

I though I knew enough about Xantia’s but appears I missed a few lessons. Basically I have a 1999 2.0 HDI 110BHP Xantia I got it last year and gave the suspension a complete overhaul, Hydraflush all new spheres and then nice new green blood (jobs a good one)

Now over the last few weeks had an issue with heavy spots in the steering so checked fluid (no issue there) and got a nice new belt just to be safe, however no luck still heavy and just not Xantia like, so up on racks and tested with wheels in the air and found a track rod end was stiff and jerky so new pair of rod ends later and back on the ground all seemed ok but still just not normal.

Tonight the wife went to leave work and the warning light came on (just the large stop light) then the steering went very heavy so she stopped the car and phoned me.

I started the motor no stop light and did a bit of citrobics but the steering is still heavy.

Now my though from reading some of the posts is that it may be the Pump but the suspension is still going up/down and I’m not keen on £160 pump if I don’t need it
I have also seen comets about the power steering rack and would hate to replace the wrong thing

Any Ideas or cheap test that you could recommend

Thanks
Jay

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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK » 10 Feb 2007, 02:11

Jay - remember that recent Xantiae ('95 on) have the 2-circuit hydraulic pump. Meaning the pump has a separate pistons section for each of suspension and powersteering circuits.
Therefore you MAY have a weak powersteerings section pump - and the rest of the pump working perfectly for the suspension & brakes.

This only means its harder to pinpoint the problem area :roll:

I'd say that you should be able to find the problem home in your driveway though.
Firstly do all the basic checks :
1) Hydraulic LHM fluid level in the reservoir
2) keenly check the large dia rubber hose from reservoir to pump for any surface hairline cracks. (The largest hose attached to the reservoir)
3) Especially the hose ends over the studs at both ends must be a tight fit. If the original factory fitted quickfit hoseclamps are still attached - replace with some standard stainless steel types. You should not be able to turn the hose on the stud when the hoseclamp is correctly tensioned.

Remember that this large rubber hose is the FEED for the pump, i.e. its under vacuum from the pumps suction. Hence you will not see any fluid leaking out, but air may be sucked in. You may use any suitable oil resistant hosing as replacement. The only reason why Citroen uses this particular hose, is its large wall thickness to not collapse under vacuum, and to withstand mineral oils and heat in the engine bay environment.
You will find that an original spare parts hose is ridiculous high priced - and only available from Citroen :evil:

The pump itself may suffer from leaks, or even a cracked plastic housing. At times one of the long throughbolts holding together the pump assembly is snapped. This is seen on a close inspection after the pump has been cleaned well in engine cleaner.

jeremy
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Post by jeremy » 10 Feb 2007, 08:08

I'd go with Anders here and say it sounds as though air may be getting in. When changing the LHM you will have disturbed the pump feed pipe and I'd look at its junction with the tank first and make sure that that joint is perfect.

Peter.N.
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Post by Peter.N. » 10 Feb 2007, 10:13

Just double check that the new belt you fitted is not slipping.

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Post by CitroenNuts » 10 Feb 2007, 11:15

Ok well just checked the pipes and all seem like new noting lose and no crack splits or glazing, the belt if good and tight no slipping, Fluid is fine with just a very small amount of froth in the tank near the inlet.

I did notice a very very very small damp patch on the blank at the front of the pump so gave it a good clean and held some tissue against it and there was a tiny amount of green blood came out.

My thinking is the inners of the pump are maybe on there way out as when the car is full lock I’m getting like a squeal from the pump that I never noticed in the past it might also explain the general intermittent feel of things

jeremy
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Post by jeremy » 10 Feb 2007, 11:36

Is the weep coming from a join in the pump body? - if so it may be possible to tighten the body securing bolts.

Squealing sounds like a loose belt - it needs to be very tight and in good condition. (but I think there is a recent post on here suggesting that the pump bearings are not as robust as they were on earlier pumps - on which the belt should be dead tight)

slim123
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Post by slim123 » 10 Feb 2007, 11:43

I would tend to agree with Anders. As the pump has 2 x sections, the suspension part (2 x piston section) is working ok, but the steering part (6 x piston section) is getting weak.

This is a common problem and will usually show up as heavy steering when the LHM is cold and interemitent heavy steering when the LHM has warmed up.

The squealing bit will be the blow off valve in the rear of the pump, these are set so that the steering gets a constant 150- of pressure, if you hold a hard full lock you can hear it, some more than others but it is not a fault.

As for the price, I think that you will find that the pump is around £130 from pleiades with a 2 x year warranty.

Regards
Slim

slim123
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Post by slim123 » 10 Feb 2007, 11:46

Forgot to say.

I think that M&C lockwoods also do pumps for around the same price. I cant remember the number but they are in Bradford, a quick google should find them.

Regards
Slim.

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Post by steelcityuk » 10 Feb 2007, 13:55


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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK » 10 Feb 2007, 14:30

AFAIR - the Citroen original feed hose is pricetagged at around the same price as a recon Pleiades pump :shock:

slim123
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Post by slim123 » 10 Feb 2007, 14:39

The ebay pump is for a 1.9td, the pulley is different on the HDI pump, so although the pump is the same the pulley is smaller and it wont run in line with the rest of the pulleys.

Regards
Slim

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Post by andmcit » 10 Feb 2007, 22:43

Had this VERY issue with a little used VSX 2.0i - the problem is a simple innexpensive fix!!

HOORAY...

Your steering universal swivel joint is dry and is siezing up!! It not very well
protected and can dry out getting stiff in it's movement EXACTLY causing
"flat spots".

I had spray grease you use on motorcyle chains etc sprayed onto the joint
as the steering was swung from lock to lock with it's front wheels off the floor
and could feel the smooth movement return into the steering - I've NOT had
the problem rerturn a year later...

HOPE THIS IS THE QUICK FIX YOU'RE LOOKING FOR!! :D

Andrew

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CitroenNuts
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Post by CitroenNuts » 11 Feb 2007, 00:22

andmcit wrote:Had this VERY issue with a little used VSX 2.0i - the problem is a simple innexpensive fix!!

HOORAY...

Your steering universal swivel joint is dry and is siezing up!! It not very well
protected and can dry out getting stiff in it's movement EXACTLY causing
"flat spots".

I had spray grease you use on motorcyle chains etc sprayed onto the joint
as the steering was swung from lock to lock with it's front wheels off the floor
and could feel the smooth movement return into the steering - I've NOT had
the problem rerturn a year later...

HOPE THIS IS THE QUICK FIX YOU'RE LOOKING FOR!! :D

Andrew
Hi gave this a try today after reading a previous post regarding it but no luck

Anyone know what times pleiades is open ?

slim123
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Post by slim123 » 11 Feb 2007, 10:15

I think just normal 9 - 5 mon to fri.

But it is allways worth a try at the weekends, as if they are busy and are in the workshop at the weekend then the phone is answered, at worst you will get the answerphone.

I know Martin and Phil very well now and have sometimes phoned at 8 in the evening expecting to leave an order on the machine, only to get one of them working late so answered the phone!

I guess that if you are working and the phone rings, it's habit to pick it up.

Regards
Slim.

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Post by CitroenNuts » 18 Feb 2007, 11:12

Well New pump arrived on Thursdays, installed Friday and small test run looked good.
Took the motor for a good 70mile trip to ikea yesterday and all was well

Then went to start her this morning and the steering was like a truck no power at all 15 minuets of scratching my head later and 20 turns full lock the steering sprung back to life.

Now after install of the pump gave it a full work out Citrobics and all seemed fine even the suspension is a bit stiffer more like getting better power from the pump. But I’m wondering is it perhaps just air still in the system? Was it maybe the fact that it was -6 this morning (never had this problem with cold before?)

Or have I overlooked something is the steering rack itself going or the Ram or some other awkward Citroen valve thing

Any help or ideas appreciated