406 and lots of white smoke

caveman_si · Post by **caveman_si** » 29 Jan 2007, 22:52

I took my 406 1.9td to the garage today and had the following done- new belts aux and cam, new water pump, new aux belt auto tensioner. Didnt bother to try it myself as I needed the car in a hurry.

I took the car from the garage (supposedly a good reputatble indy) and with in yards started to sound a bit funny, kinda like the sound you get when you leave the little pipe off that connects the fuel pump to the turbo air pipe, but a bit more rattlely.

With in about 500m - 1km i was in traffic it started to sound really bad when ever i gave it any revs ie 2k revs up wards when the turbo kicks in.
Got it home as i only live 1km from the garage probaby about 2km from the garage driving it.

I didnt try to take it back then as i collected the car as the garage was shutting.
After dinner I had a quick look over the car and could see nothing obviously wrong so started it up again, again a little tinny and whiney and then the noise got worse then stopped and big clouds of white smoke that smell like burnt oil started to pour out of the exhaust.

So any one any idea whats gone??? IM guessing the turbo prehaps?

My next question is this the garages fault? or to be fairer my car went into the garage and was fine no problems at all except needing a new aux auto tensioner and came out like this, is it reasonable to assume that the garage have caused what ever is at fault? Any one any idea how doing belts could cause my issues with it?

Brian UK · Post by **Brian UK** » 29 Jan 2007, 23:20

White smoke from a diesel is almost always unburnt fuel, and the most common reason for this is retarded injection timing.
Can you check the timing belt tension, as it sounds to me that it might not be tight enough, and something has slipped.

caveman_si · Post by **caveman_si** » 29 Jan 2007, 23:31

it it was the timing belt i suppose that would explain the noise the more revs i gave it the more it rough and louder it sounded. No sure how it slipping would cause noises one minute and then really big clouds of smoke the next. I would have thought if it was unburnt diesel that it would be more constant?

caveman_si · Post by **caveman_si** » 30 Jan 2007, 10:38

Had a look at it in the day light and the smoke smells both of diesel and oil and is a light grey. Its also used over a litre of oil since yesterday morning.
And its not making as much noise as it did yesterday. NOw it just sounds liike a really rough engine almost tractor like instead of something that is broken.

Brian UK · Post by **Brian UK** » 30 Jan 2007, 23:50

What's the coolant in the radiator like? If that is pressurised then it would be a blown head gasket.
I would still not rule out the cam belt having jumped though, as it would run rough if the camshaft was not timed correctly.
The top front belt cover comes off fairly easily, so you can check the belt tension. It would not be the first I have seen set up by a professional workshop which was flapping loose.
Those engines have a spring tensioner, which has to be locked off in order to install the belt. If they forgot to unlock it.....
It should be hard to twist the belt midway between the camshaft and injector pump pulleys.

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 31 Jan 2007, 09:01

Sounds a lot like the Turbo Si.. I have had 2/3 go in my time.. Grey smoke, severe oil loss.. ?

JOhn

caveman_si · Post by **caveman_si** » 31 Jan 2007, 10:27

My week gets better and better.

I collected my car last nite. The garage claim the timing and all the bits they fitted is fine. They claim that they cant work out what is wrong but they suspect that the car is suffering from stuck injectors and is now hydraulically locked.
So now the car is really really broke, it drove into the garage yesterday and had to be towed home yesterday because its hydraulically locked and wont turn over.

And the best thing is the garage are still adamant that there is no damage due to them.

So any one got a spare xud engine fit for 406 lying around they dont need??? ()in good working order of course!

Brian UK · Post by **Brian UK** » 31 Jan 2007, 15:17

By hydraulically locked, I presume they mean that one cylender is full of fuel on the compression stroke. It would be a very strange injector which could send that much fuel into the cylender.
You can easily tell by removing one or all of the glow plugs, and turning the engine, and see what comes out of the hole.
Oh, and I have rarely known any garage to own up to anything. "It was allright leaving me mate".

reblack68 · Post by **reblack68** » 31 Jan 2007, 21:42

I think it's pretty clear that this garage has somehow managed to make a hash of your car.

I think you need to go to your local Trading Standards, tell them what you suspect and ask them how to proceed. Everything you do from now on needs to be documented. This could potentially be quite expensive to sort out and it's only fair that the garage do what it takes to put it right. Even if there is no damage there will be a fair bit of workshop time involved.

It's possible that the garage is completely innocent but you need to find out for sure.

Brian UK · Post by **Brian UK** » 31 Jan 2007, 23:36

You would also need an independent mechanic's report on the fault, and likely causes.

steelcityuk · Post by **steelcityuk** » 01 Feb 2007, 10:42

Is it hydraulic lock or the valves now touching the pistons? Would the starter motor have enough power to bend the valves or hole the pistons, if not then I suspect the belts slipped. As stated above remove glowplugs and try to turn engine using a socket on the crank bolt.

Steve.

Brian UK · Post by **Brian UK** » 02 Feb 2007, 11:22

The top front belt cover is only held on with spring clips, very easy to remove. Check the belt tension. It should be springy but not flapping loose on the top run. If it is flapping loose then it has almost certainly slipped, and that is down to the garage.
When a fault condition occurs immediately after some work has been done, always suspect this as a cause.
Just occasionally another fault, completely unrelated will occur, but always worth checking the work already done.

Post by **RichardW** » 02 Feb 2007, 11:37

Nah, it's a 406 so it will have the later bolt on covers. Getting the front one off is awkward, but needs the engine mount removing, and nimble fingers. Not as much fun as getting the back cover off though

406NTOZ · Post by **406NTOZ** » 17 Feb 2009, 09:52

Hi from Oz.,
I read and re-read this bit from Brian in 2007 as I was reviewing the 406 history:

White smoke from a diesel is almost always unburnt fuel, and the most common reason for this is retarded injection timing.
Can you check the timing belt tension, as it sounds to me that it might not be tight enough, and something has slipped.

The part I have trouble with is the 'unburnt fuel', not the timing issue.
My diesel history says if the exhaust is spewing white smoke, you have a starvation of primary or lift pump fuel supply. This is usually the result of a filter-says-no scenario --- and that is from way back when there were no microprocessors being fed with good or bad data.

Over fuelling is common (that's why we now have Cat units), and since the basic diesel is designed without regard to mixture ratio (always oxygen excess), when you inject way too much fuel, for whatever reason, BLACK smoke is the result.

What have I missed here?

Cheers,

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 17 Feb 2009, 10:35

an old post

I would have thought unburnt fuel would lead to black soot ?

certainly would not expect white smoke..

John

French Car Forum

406 and lots of white smoke

406 and lots of white smoke

White smoke sources.