I am thinking of lowering the front on my ZX (shorter springs). I am currently running 195/55 X 15 tyres on peugeot rims, these currently clear the arches. In theory since the bump stops will be same then shorter springs shouldnt cause a problem. However I suspect I never got near the bump stop in normal useage and if I did the wheel would clout the arch.
I seem to remember a post which touched on this but cant find it, has anyone any direct experience of this area.
ZX suspension
Moderator: RichardW
If you want advice (and you may not want this) Leave well alone.
If the car was meant to be lower then citroen would have done this at the factory.
In my honest opinion, cars that have been lowered are dangerous, lowering will have adverse effects on the handling and can cause accidents.
But Hey thats just my opinion, others may differ!!!
Regards
Slim
If the car was meant to be lower then citroen would have done this at the factory.
In my honest opinion, cars that have been lowered are dangerous, lowering will have adverse effects on the handling and can cause accidents.
But Hey thats just my opinion, others may differ!!!
Regards
Slim
True, you have a point. But engineering is always a compromise, there is never one correct answer. The ZX suspension is a compromise of comfort, noise, handling, and cost. The factory reached the setting based upon what they wanted out of the vehicle, based upon its target market. Ive just decided I want to make different compromises.
Do you have an engineering reasoning as to why lowering the suspension would make it 'dangerous'.
Do you have an engineering reasoning as to why lowering the suspension would make it 'dangerous'.
Hi there.. It might be worth having a look at the pug forums, as the 306 has the same suspension setup as the Zx, and they have been lowered and modded to within an inch of their lives ! -an approved and tested 306 lowering kit would probably "bolt" straight on, and along with lowering the rear torsion bars by the required amount would only sacrifice some ride comfort. I don't see why lowering a ZX should make it dangerous -indeed it would probably make it more stable at high speed ( The C5 does it automatically after all) . Finally... if we all liked the same thing, then it would be a miserable world wouldn't it?
I won't do that again
[quote="AndersDK"]If you think you know better than the Citroen engineers - then go ahead and do whatever mod you want to your ZX 
[/quote]
If you read my post, that isnt what I said. I merely stated I was prepared to make a different set of compromises than Citroen made. I didnt say it would be better, just suit my tastes rather than that of Mr average.
[quote="AndersDK"]
Nobody here is trying to prevent you doing it - you just wont get advice here, as most of us here believe cars are made as they are - for a reason.[/quote]
Interesting point, so all of the parts you fit to your car are sourced from a citroen dealership, including OE tyres, exhaust, brake pads discs etc, nobody fits tow bars, or fits alloys.
I never realised I was so radical and certainly didnt anticipate such a negative response to a very simple question. Shame as I previously found this forum to be very useful.
[/quote]
If you read my post, that isnt what I said. I merely stated I was prepared to make a different set of compromises than Citroen made. I didnt say it would be better, just suit my tastes rather than that of Mr average.
[quote="AndersDK"]
Nobody here is trying to prevent you doing it - you just wont get advice here, as most of us here believe cars are made as they are - for a reason.[/quote]
Interesting point, so all of the parts you fit to your car are sourced from a citroen dealership, including OE tyres, exhaust, brake pads discs etc, nobody fits tow bars, or fits alloys.
I never realised I was so radical and certainly didnt anticipate such a negative response to a very simple question. Shame as I previously found this forum to be very useful.
[quote="mpr1956"]Hi there.. It might be worth having a look at the pug forums, as the 306 has the same suspension setup as the Zx, and they have been lowered and modded to within an inch of their lives ! -an approved and tested 306 lowering kit would probably "bolt" straight on, and along with lowering the rear torsion bars by the required amount would only sacrifice some ride comfort. I don't see why lowering a ZX should make it dangerous -indeed it would probably make it more stable at high speed ( The C5 does it automatically after all) . Finally... if we all liked the same thing, then it would be a miserable world wouldn't it?[/quote]
Thanks for that I'll give them a try
Thanks for that I'll give them a try
hi,
i've never done suspension mods before, but i will tell u what i think... i wont' be harsh here.... don't lower too much, don't stiffen too much, i reckon most 'boyracers' (not calling you one) go too much... i.e lowering way too much... how this helps i don't know, i think stiffening springs would be much more beneficial, the car is already well designed as some on this forum have advised you, but above all the suspension geometery is designed around the current suspension height, so lowering it will fudge it all up, camber may be wrong, tyre wear may be excessive and so on. So stiffen first and see what it's like.
Oh and don't put wheels to big on it, this will also fudge up the suspension, a guy i work with put 18inch wheels on a polo and crashed it a week after, it resembled an oversized shopping trolley with weird wheels, he didn't declare it to insurance either!!! Silly boy.
What model is your ZX? If it's something normal (i.e not volcane) then consider upgrading to a Volcane setup first. Or just buy a volcane, the should be pretty good if it's based on a 306! failing to get a Volcane ... stiffen the springs if you need to, a thicker anti-roll bar is something you can consider too, i'd advise against lowering, and defo not big wheels and low profile tyres, really don't look good except on a few cars! Get quality stuff from (...maybe) Demon Tweeks, they should also be able to advise further too. Above all, declare all to the insurance!
Just my advice, use at your own risk of course!
Hope that helps
i've never done suspension mods before, but i will tell u what i think... i wont' be harsh here.... don't lower too much, don't stiffen too much, i reckon most 'boyracers' (not calling you one) go too much... i.e lowering way too much... how this helps i don't know, i think stiffening springs would be much more beneficial, the car is already well designed as some on this forum have advised you, but above all the suspension geometery is designed around the current suspension height, so lowering it will fudge it all up, camber may be wrong, tyre wear may be excessive and so on. So stiffen first and see what it's like.
Oh and don't put wheels to big on it, this will also fudge up the suspension, a guy i work with put 18inch wheels on a polo and crashed it a week after, it resembled an oversized shopping trolley with weird wheels, he didn't declare it to insurance either!!! Silly boy.
What model is your ZX? If it's something normal (i.e not volcane) then consider upgrading to a Volcane setup first. Or just buy a volcane, the should be pretty good if it's based on a 306! failing to get a Volcane ... stiffen the springs if you need to, a thicker anti-roll bar is something you can consider too, i'd advise against lowering, and defo not big wheels and low profile tyres, really don't look good except on a few cars! Get quality stuff from (...maybe) Demon Tweeks, they should also be able to advise further too. Above all, declare all to the insurance!
Just my advice, use at your own risk of course!
Hope that helps
I had a Cavalier SRI a few years ago.I put a 2" lowering spring kit on that.In reality it lowered the car by about an inch.I also put standard new shocks on as we had problems with the stiffer lower shocks not bolting together.I also kept the stardard alloys,195/60/14`s.I had all the geometry set up after.Overall,the car looked better,rode better & handled better.I could still have 5 people in the car with no probs,not hitting the bump stops.
After having my previous Xantia estate,i dont think you could beat the look of that when you lowered it as low as it would go!!
Looked like a touring car
After having my previous Xantia estate,i dont think you could beat the look of that when you lowered it as low as it would go!!
Looked like a touring car 53`406 est SE Hdi 140,110k
"Do you have an engineering reasoning as to why lowering the suspension would make it 'dangerous'."
Yes I do!!
Look at the driveshafts as the car sits in it's normal driving position. They will run level from the final drive to the center of the hubs, thus causing less strain on the tri-axe joints and alowing max movement up and down along with the bumps in the road.
Now put a big weight on the bonnet! ie lowering the car by about an inch. Look at the driveshafts again, they will be pointing slightly up towards the hubs. This is now causing more wear on the tri-axe joint when the most of the driving is done, especialy on pulling away.
Not a big deal, but still bad engineering practice!!
A young lad near here put shorter springs on his Nova, the first hump back bridge made one pop out and wrap around the hub!!
It dont realy bother me if you lower or not and I agree as a show car they can look very good especialy if sorted with the correct body kit etc, but be prepared to do as some of the lads around here have done. Rip it all off on the first speed bump you go over, along with the exhaust. (have you noticed they are getting higher)
I would suggest that if you realy want to do it, try as others have suggested, Demon tweeks or a company like this, as they will be able to give the best advice.
Regards
Slim.
Yes I do!!
Look at the driveshafts as the car sits in it's normal driving position. They will run level from the final drive to the center of the hubs, thus causing less strain on the tri-axe joints and alowing max movement up and down along with the bumps in the road.
Now put a big weight on the bonnet! ie lowering the car by about an inch. Look at the driveshafts again, they will be pointing slightly up towards the hubs. This is now causing more wear on the tri-axe joint when the most of the driving is done, especialy on pulling away.
Not a big deal, but still bad engineering practice!!
A young lad near here put shorter springs on his Nova, the first hump back bridge made one pop out and wrap around the hub!!
It dont realy bother me if you lower or not and I agree as a show car they can look very good especialy if sorted with the correct body kit etc, but be prepared to do as some of the lads around here have done. Rip it all off on the first speed bump you go over, along with the exhaust. (have you noticed they are getting higher)
I would suggest that if you realy want to do it, try as others have suggested, Demon tweeks or a company like this, as they will be able to give the best advice.
Regards
Slim.
I'll be retaining the stock dampers so bump stocks and maximum travel will be the same. Based on that the drive shafts shouldnt pop out.
As for the increased wear argument I would agree that its likely to be higher but as long as the normal wear signs are not ignored it isnt dangerous in itself.
As for the increased wear argument I would agree that its likely to be higher but as long as the normal wear signs are not ignored it isnt dangerous in itself.
Last edited by srx600 on 31 Jan 2007, 15:43, edited 2 times in total.
-
steelcityuk
- Posts: 1053
- Joined: 03 Jul 2006, 21:51
- Location: not applicable
- My Cars: not applicable
- x 1
Right.
I've lowered my ZX & its BRILLIANT! I only bought cheapie springs from ebay too.
I got mine down roughly -25~30mm, the only real reason I did it was for esthetics, to make the wheels fill the arches some more.
I live down a really quite bumpy road on only noticed a harshness when, making progress, shall we say. But at all other times it was just like the standard setup.
I kept the rear standard so the car leaned forward alittle bit more & that seemed to move some weight towards the front, making the nose less fidgety.
In the bends the car felt more planted, giving more confidence, you would also 'feel' the rear doing it stuff more too but how or why I have no idea.
The only time I hit the bumpstops is down a unlight road some bright spark had put speed bumps down since I'd last been through & I hit one far to fast, no damage however, also never had driveshaft problems.
The only thing I will say is I noticed the rear moved up & down alot more than the front, most noticably in the wing mirror, looking down the length of the car, althoguh you couldn't really feel it inside. I was always going to get some adjustable rear shocks to compensate but have since bought & fitted a complete Spax setup with uprated shocks & springs with a lowered rear beam. I've not driven on them yet so can't say if its worse with uprated shocks. I've kept my old gear just in case.
In all it is one of the best cars I've lowered. Period. It has none of the 'nodding' normally associated with lowering on just springs & it doesn't crash & bang down the road - I put this down to the size of the springs.
My glowing report is of course my experiance with a 1400 lump under the hood, if yours is a diesel you may find the right is harsher due to the extra weight of the engine. I you would like I'll dig out a spring/shock & see if I can find a make for you.
I've lowered my ZX & its BRILLIANT! I only bought cheapie springs from ebay too.
I got mine down roughly -25~30mm, the only real reason I did it was for esthetics, to make the wheels fill the arches some more.
I live down a really quite bumpy road on only noticed a harshness when, making progress, shall we say. But at all other times it was just like the standard setup.
I kept the rear standard so the car leaned forward alittle bit more & that seemed to move some weight towards the front, making the nose less fidgety.
In the bends the car felt more planted, giving more confidence, you would also 'feel' the rear doing it stuff more too but how or why I have no idea.
The only time I hit the bumpstops is down a unlight road some bright spark had put speed bumps down since I'd last been through & I hit one far to fast, no damage however, also never had driveshaft problems.
The only thing I will say is I noticed the rear moved up & down alot more than the front, most noticably in the wing mirror, looking down the length of the car, althoguh you couldn't really feel it inside. I was always going to get some adjustable rear shocks to compensate but have since bought & fitted a complete Spax setup with uprated shocks & springs with a lowered rear beam. I've not driven on them yet so can't say if its worse with uprated shocks. I've kept my old gear just in case.
In all it is one of the best cars I've lowered. Period. It has none of the 'nodding' normally associated with lowering on just springs & it doesn't crash & bang down the road - I put this down to the size of the springs.
My glowing report is of course my experiance with a 1400 lump under the hood, if yours is a diesel you may find the right is harsher due to the extra weight of the engine. I you would like I'll dig out a spring/shock & see if I can find a make for you.
i lowerd my zx td (now sold to my brother so not mine anymore) by 40mm front and back, it was absolutly fantasic. It had 195/50/15 alloys it looked good and handled amazingly. I did 30000 miles with the car after it had been lowerd with no adverse effects on driveshafts or any other part for that matter.
the idea that drive shafts can be damaged is rubish:
The triax joints on the driveshafts are designed so that they have enough travel to absord lenght changes due to the suspension goin up and down from normall ride height to the point where the suspension hits the bump stops. By lowering the car you never go lower than the bump stops and so the driveshaft triax joints are still within thier working range, to suggest that a car lowered, but not riding on the bump stops will damage the driveshafts is utter RUBBISH!! im affraid.
Infact my triax joints were fairly worn, lowering the car slid the drivshaft further into the triax joint causing the joint to run on new unworn surfaces inside the triax, making the joint run smoother and removing the tell tale woble cuased by worn triax joints.
A sensibly and properly lowered car driving around a corner at 30mph is MUCH safer than a standard car driving around the same corner in the same conditions fact. the problem comes when people try and push the superior handling of the car to try and find the edge and loose control that way.
lower it you wont regret it, veriety and personal taste providing it is legal keeps everything interesting.
the idea that drive shafts can be damaged is rubish:
The triax joints on the driveshafts are designed so that they have enough travel to absord lenght changes due to the suspension goin up and down from normall ride height to the point where the suspension hits the bump stops. By lowering the car you never go lower than the bump stops and so the driveshaft triax joints are still within thier working range, to suggest that a car lowered, but not riding on the bump stops will damage the driveshafts is utter RUBBISH!! im affraid.
Infact my triax joints were fairly worn, lowering the car slid the drivshaft further into the triax joint causing the joint to run on new unworn surfaces inside the triax, making the joint run smoother and removing the tell tale woble cuased by worn triax joints.
A sensibly and properly lowered car driving around a corner at 30mph is MUCH safer than a standard car driving around the same corner in the same conditions fact. the problem comes when people try and push the superior handling of the car to try and find the edge and loose control that way.
lower it you wont regret it, veriety and personal taste providing it is legal keeps everything interesting.
Zxtd Aura converted from 1.8i Petrol - Lowered, 20psi boost extra fuel - weeeeeee!
MK2 Cortina 1600e
Honda Acty Romahome - 545cc!! - (the "beast")
MK2 Cortina 1600e
Honda Acty Romahome - 545cc!! - (the "beast")