Alloy wheel security bolts

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handyman
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Alloy wheel security bolts

Post by handyman »

Anybody know how to get the security bolts off a Xantia alloy wheel when you do not have the correct adaptor? It is for the earlier type with pins in the shoulder, not the later splined type and I assume came as standard with the car.

I have tried two different makes of bolt remover, neither fitted into the hole in the wheel rim, one fracturing when I turned down the outside to reduce the diameter.

Need to get the wheels off to replace a clutch bearing, so car is currently immobile.

I tried my local Citroen dealer who was totally unhelpful, so wont be using him again.

Handyman
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Post by RichardW »

I think you can get a special tool for getting these off - it has on internal taper that grips the round bit as you try and turn it - try a google search, or ask your local trye fast fit place. Alternatively I've heard people getting them off by hammering an undersized socket onto the bolt. Assuming they are original I'd have thought a dealer could get the correct key in from the VIN. Needs a helpful dealer though :?

Failing all else, attack with angle grinder, and take a trip to the scrappers afterwards :wink:
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andmcit
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Post by andmcit »

I've seen a socket with dozens of pins that slide into the profile of the nut etc
that needs turning - bit like those desk curios that you make a shape of your
face, hand etc a bit like an old fashioned boywork profiler.

I'll have a google and see what turns up - this would be the most likely route
as you dont have much access into the recess for the nut - guess you could
angle grind the wheel off like a guy selling a VSX on ebay a while ago - funny
thing is he could find a seller as he didn't finish the job... :roll:

Andrew
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Post by andmcit »

You could of course ask a local yobbo spotty youth - him and his mates'll
get it off your car in 2 minutes... :x

Andrew
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Post by handyman »

Hi Richard, as far as I know, the security bolts are the originals supplied by Citroen when the vehicle was new.
As I said, my local Citroen dealer proved unhelpful as they said that the security bolts were an accessory item and is not listed by Citroen with the vehicle's VIN. If anybody knows better, please let me know. Citroen will supply a new adaptor, if you can get the code off the bolt! A little catch 22, methinks.
The bolts are spigoted into the alloy wheel and attacking with the angle grinder involves removal of part of the wheel rim, a little drastic and self defeating as I want to keep the wheel! I have tried two different bolt removers, that have a lefthanded thread to wind onto the bolt head but they are too big to fit into the spigot hole. Hence my exercise in turning down one, only to find it shatter when applied to the bolt.
I may try your suggestion of hammering on an old socket, but as the bolt spigot is round, I doubt it will work.
My local tyre companies are filled with jobsworths who could not understand that the wheel was attached to a car that was immobile.
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Post by andmcit »

On a more constructive note :wink: , can you get a mobile welder to zap a
bolt onto the head of the locking bolt you want to remove - after all you'll
never want to use it again so it wont matter if you 'spoil' it!

Andrew

actually a nut can have a mig through it's open centre to create a decent
purchase to turn the locking bolt...
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Post by handyman »

Andrew, the car is in my workshop and I would not invite any local herberts into my workshop, spotty or otherwise.
But you have given me an idea as I know a couple of the local yoofs, the type who drive around in untaxed, unMOTd cars. I am sure they may have a way to remove the bolts, without damage to the wheel.
I would be interested to know if you find details of that multi-adaptor. My brother had a similar problem a few years ago and used a bolt remover which had two eccentric, hardened wheels in a tube, bought in Brown Bros. The tool and the bolt were scrap afterwards though.
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Post by citronut »

the other option might be drill the centre of the bolt head increasing the drill size untill the head of the bolt has gone,then once the wheel is out of the way you will be able to get the rest of the bolt out with either a good stud extractor or a decent pair of grips
regards malcolm
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Post by DerekH »

I have in front of me a set of 4 of the the very screws plus the removal tool. It is true that they were an accessory and not part of the car. I had a Xantia VSX new in 1995 and when I sold it I thought I'd keep these but goodness knows why. The removal tool has a 4 letter code stamped on it and mine is BHKT. The code is not stamped on the screws but was on a piece of paper that came with the kit. I have tried a 22mm mutipin socket as discussed above but it won't fit over the head.

I would be very surprised if the removal tool is not hidden around the car somewhere as it's not very big. Could it be in with the jack?

Though of no immediate use to you, you are welcome to these for the cost of the postage. At least then you have something to look at to try and resolve the problem.

Derek once Kered
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Post by jeremy »

Something like this might do the job

http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.a ... uctid=9266

Don't think you are the first with problems
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Post by Stempy »

My previous Xantia, a VSX had these type of security bolts. I had the same trouble when I lost the 'key' adapter. I asked the dealer who I bought it from and they had a selection of spare adapters as they had discovered that it's possible to use most of them if you cut off one of the four lugs. You can then generally make them fit if you are careful which lug you remove.
It infuriates me to be wrong when I know I'm right

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Post by np »

I had this a few years agowith my VSX.In the end,i went to B&Q & brought a few metal hole saws for my power drill.They are orange in colour,about 2" long.They do a size that fits perfectly over the end/head of the locking nut where the adapter slots into.Then drill the round outer head/coller(where the pins lock into) off the wheel nut.After about 10 mins or so it should fall off.Then i removed the wheel & undone the remaining bolt with some mole grips.It took me a week or so,a few hours a time trying to drill 1 bolt off untill i found this method.Then had the job done in an hour or so after that.
I have one of the hole saws in front of me.Size is 9/16,14mm.It takes 1 hole bit per wheel nut,as after 1 nut its blunt as anything.
Never botherd putting locking nuts on after that! :)
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Post by KevMayer »

I had a similar problem on my C5. Take a look at this thread. Welding a bolt to the locking bolt was the solution.

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... highlight=

cheers, Kev
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Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
andmcit
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Post by andmcit »

Now I've had time to rake through my addled memory, I've bought a few
VSX's and a few have had locking bolts on them. With one, the previous
keeper lost the special unlocking nut and took it to the local Cit garage.
IIRC the garage foreman got their apprentice, poor lad :lol: , to fabricate
a unique key with the various odds and ends in the workshop and a mig,
Basically a solid metal rod of 4-5mm diameter was cut into the four different
pieces and welded into the correct positions to engage with the Genuine Cit
locking bolt - actually the lad, bless him, made a stronger piece than the
genuine one!

I've not had any luck finding the multi rollers socket - I've seen them advertised
but I'm damned if I can recall where - possibly Car Mechanics.

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Post by handyman »

Hello all, thanks for the miriad of suggestions. It appears that Citroen have used three different types of bolt over the years, the two early types are pin configurations, the earliest with a sloping flange, the latter with a flat flange. The Mk2 has a splined spigot.

I like Malcolms idea of drilling out the bolt centre, I was hesitant as a assumed the bolt to be hardened, but I will give it a try. I do have some stellite tipped drills but they are too short to reach the bolt head, but I do have plenty of big and long HSS bits and decent quality easy-outs.

Jeremy, I had already tried the nut removal sockets. They are too fat to fit in the recessed hole in the wheel. It was one of these that I turned down
that then exploded once I got the air wrench onto it. Must say, it was the same make but two thirds of the price listed.

Due to the recessed hole in the wheel, any options to welding nuts, bolts, apprentices or whatever onto the bolt head are nigh on impossible. There is too little room for a Mig, Tig, gas or arc!

I will be in the workshop this afternoon to give it a go with the drills.

I contacted one of the local spotty yoofs, who is arranging the loan of a collection locking wheel nut adaptors from some of his mates. Now I wonder why they have so many adaptors? Hmmmmm.

Handyman

PS. Note for Stempy and Jeremy, the car is red metallic. Does that make any difference?
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