Road Charging

OwenP · Post by **OwenP** » 01 Dec 2006, 14:52

I'm surprised this one hasn't come up on here yet:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6160877.stm

Obviously Road tax, fuel tax, and the like aren't enough any more, why can they not see that you need to improve public transport first....

Also interesting to note that the Former British Airways chief Sir Rod Eddington reckons the best way to help is by extending the airports!

I thought aircraft were worse for carbon emissions than cars were?!?!

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 01 Dec 2006, 16:43

Once again a report has totally ignored things like persuading people to live nearer work, companies to think properly about distribution and realise that centralk distribution depots that make nothing are just expensive and in this day of computers - collection and delivery of part loads would be more sensible, encouraging people to work at home rather than travel to work - using computers, better railway signalling enabling trains to run closer together with no loss of safety, and unloading ships near to the point of use rather than the present system.

Of course the construction of the Cross Rail system in London, proper rail routing of goods from Scotland and the North to and through the Channel tunnel don't seem to feature and the environmental impact of some trains and most busses hasn't been considered either (apparently as bad or worse than cars - by the time the unprofitable nearly empty outside peak time trips are considered.)

Probably be dismissed as impossible to implement - another huge fee wasted!

Stewart(oily) · Post by **Stewart(oily)** » 01 Dec 2006, 18:00

It will not affect me. I will just hop on a clean comfortable reasonably priced bus or train, oh no I forgot I live in Wales

Stewart

OwenP · Post by **OwenP** » 01 Dec 2006, 19:24

Stewart(oily) wrote:It will not affect me. I will just hop on a clean comfortable reasonably priced bus or train, oh no I forgot I live in Wales
Stewart

Sounds familiar, the only reason I'm driving is because of having to work on Anglesey for a year as part of my uni course.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 02 Dec 2006, 10:44

Stewart(oily) wrote:It will not affect me. I will just hop on a clean comfortable reasonably priced bus or train, oh no I forgot I live in Wales
Stewart

Reasonably priced? For me its not whether they're reasonably priced or not, the problem is that if your journey doesn't involve a direct bus or train route, you can't just go from A to B, you end up going via X, Y and Z. I'd need 1 train and 2 buses plus two long walks to get to work without my car, I'd be visiting two cities and a town that I don't take my car through.

I see the road pricing proposals, but I don't see the proposals that are going to make it possible for me to actually get to work without my car. Until I see an alternative viable method for me to get to work without the car, I'm afraid I have to dismiss this as just another tax, taxing the motorist because the motorist has money.

Cars have become cheap to run, so that almost everybody can afford a car. The government is proposing that through road pricing we make roads too expensive for normal people to afford, so that cars and congestion free roads would only be for the rich.

uhn113x · Post by **uhn113x** » 03 Dec 2006, 11:17

Hmmm ... In the UK, after we binned most of the railway network in the 60s, and the railway companies are pricing themselves out of the market; it costs more to go to London by train than it does to fly to the Middle East.

As I am now somewhat ancient, buses are free for me for journeys within my county; bus routes are gradually being removed, and the actual vehicles are filthy, badly maintained and the cheapest that they can get; the upholstery on the seats are the thickness of the door cards on my ZX.
Not to mention our third-world roads.

When my wife and I go to Leeds on a Saturday, we go by bus - going by car could cost at least £5 for parking.
No way would I want to go any further than the 8 miles on one of Arriva's boneshakers.

Use public transport? Come on, Mr Blur, visit our planet sometime.

Post by **SteveG** » 03 Dec 2006, 13:51

I would willingly use public transport if it went where I want to go when I want to go there ... but it doesn't.

Is it any wonder that a report commissioned by the Treasury comes out in favour of raising more revenue?

micitroen · Post by **micitroen** » 03 Dec 2006, 13:59

As already stated, this report was done by a 'failed BA Chief' why on earth would that make him suitable to head research into road pricing?

uhn113x · Post by **uhn113x** » 03 Dec 2006, 15:21

SteveG wrote: Is it any wonder that a report commissioned by the Treasury comes out in favour of raising more revenue?

I wonder what that cost (us)?

reblack68 · Post by **reblack68** » 03 Dec 2006, 18:47

If the places where we work, rest and play weren't spread out so much we wouldn't need our cars. No government that is serious about reducing traffic volume would approve all these out of town shopping centres.

How many of you shop and work in the same town that you live in?

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 03 Dec 2006, 20:55

Quick answer to environmental damage would be to ban the production of any petrol engines at all - after all what is the point in making and buying a thing that uses 1/3 more fuel than another one that does a similar job.

Incidentally most of my supplies can be bought withing a 15 minute walk and my Citroen dealer is less than 1/2 hour away as is the football club. Cricket is a bit further.

Post by **philhoward** » 03 Dec 2006, 21:21

I live 43 miles away from work, have to go at least 10 miles to do any half decent shopping (what is the point of a "mini-Morrisons/Somefield" anyway?), but can't afford to move due to the spiralling house prices and mortgage costs. I'm financially better off paying more tax!!!

Yes, we've had millions of £'s plowed into local "regeneration" which has resulted in..more houses and a plethroa of small industrial units/internet store warehouses.

The local council actually had to take out a court injunction to stop the sale of some of these houses due to insufficient local health care (doctors) until the developers built a surgery to cope. Didn't help me - I have lived here for 9 years and STILL can't register with my local doctor because they're all full. I have to lie and say I still live with my parents.
My council tax has increased year on year to fund the Police force...so they downgraded our police station (and any within a 20 mile radius..) to 9am-5pm opening only!

Sorry for jumping on my soap box...

uhn113x · Post by **uhn113x** » 04 Dec 2006, 07:41

Reblack
Although we do not live in a town, my wife does generally do her shopping in the nearest one, a mile away. We try to support our smaller shops as often they have far more variety than the supermarkets.

As for shopping centres/malls, for me you can keep 'em - all have the same shops, generally with nothing I ever want to buy!

Jeremy
Diesel? Yes - I agree there. Nearest Citroen dealer is 3 miles away, not that that is important; the only time I tried to get a part there they did not have it, and the salesman wanted to borrow the Dyane to put it in the showroom. 8)
I think the nearest football club is the one at Huddersfield; fortunately 7 miles away; someone else can put up with the vandalised cars and drunken halfwits parading around the place and blocking the A62. Cricket? Dunno - Headingley, I suppose.

Phil
No problem - you can borrow my soapbox!

Apologies for going OT !

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 04 Dec 2006, 11:24

jeremy wrote:Quick answer to environmental damage would be to ban the production of any petrol engines at all - after all what is the point in making and buying a thing that uses 1/3 more fuel than another one that does a similar job.

Diesels are better from a "climate change" point of view but their emissions aren't so good for us humans to breath. Petrol engines are cleaner, (assuming they're working properly and that they've warmed up), they put out more CO2 but less hydrocarbon (smoke), NOx and carbon monoxide than a diesel.

BMW is working on making their petrol engines run on hydrogen as well as petrol, so they can go "zero emissions". I don't like the "zero emissions" term because what it really means is "much more emissions coming out of a big power station that you can't see and worse overall efficiency".

Why doesn't anybody produce a hybrid diesel? How about dual fuel diesels that can use hydrogen / CNG / LPG ?

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 04 Dec 2006, 12:58

With the current pump price differential between petrol and diesel and the improvement in petrol engine fuel consumption there's now no financial advantage to buy a diesel if you're doing average annual milage, and if you do a low mieage, you're probably now actually worse off with diesel.

But if you take your holidays abroad and go by car, or use veggie oil, then of course it's a different matter!!