TD engine not starting - needs Priming

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 15 Nov 2006, 09:47

help

My friends ZX 1.9 has never started properly. If it is used within a few hours, it's fine, but any longer and it needs serious amounts of priming..

In the past, I have changed the glow plugs, bypassed the diesel filter housing, and replaced the primer bulb... none have helped..

The bulb is always initiallysoft, which to me indicates the reason the car wont start is lack if fuel pressure / fuel.

What else can it be? Injection pump, fuel leak... ?

thanks as always

John G

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 15 Nov 2006, 10:14

If its a Bosch pump it could be poorly fitting/split injector leak off pipes, if its not or they are OK it definitly sounds as though you have air getting in somewhere, could be almost anywhere in the fuel line. You have tried the most likely things so a bit of experimenting is called for. A section of clear plastic tubing in the feed to the fuel pump will help you see any difference made. If you have checked all the joints it could be further back in the line, try parking the car on a very steep downward slope, if you can get the fuel tank above the engine you should see evidence of fuel leakage instead of air ingress.

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 15 Nov 2006, 10:53

thanks Peter will look at those things..

I suppose a very simple test would be to remove the fuel feed pipe to the Primer, and run a new tube into a can of diesel.. if next day the car starts fine the problem almost definately is in the fuel lines... ?

J

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 15 Nov 2006, 11:11

Its probably after the primer!

Is the car always run with a decent amount of fuel in it - on on empty? (My ZX has about 4 gallons in it when it reads empty!)

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 15 Nov 2006, 12:27

thanks Jeremy.. you mean before the primer i.e. towards tank? or after, towards engine?

I think she runs it pretty full most of time...

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 15 Nov 2006, 13:08

Generally the leaks are forward of the primer - ie engine side - amd may be a pipe that needs clipping or something.

Bosch are sensitive to leakoff pipe problems, Roto-Diesel just leak and smell.

The point about the fuel level was simply that I was reminded of a post a long time ago about this sort of problem and it turned out that keeping the fuel light on was a challenge - and investment in a couple of gallons cured the problem.

BrianM · Unread post by **BrianM** » 15 Nov 2006, 17:01

Check that the top of the filter housing is an airtight fit too. When you prime to the last keep the pressure on the bulb and see if there is any leak there.

Brian

97 Xantia TD

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 15 Nov 2006, 17:19

Brian thanks, but I have bypassed the whole filter housing, and replaced the primer, so I can count those out...

I think I will check the leak off pipes...

srx600 · Unread post by **srx600** » 16 Nov 2006, 08:10

I had a similiar problem some years ago, turned out to be leaking seals on the pump drawing in air. I seem to remember I temporarily changed the piping to feed and return to a clear glass bottle. The diesel in the bottle quickly filled with bubbles. Mine would run fine but starting got progressively worse.

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 16 Nov 2006, 12:08

thanks SRX..

I wonder if it will be easier to fit another pump rather than try and sort the seals.... (if it turns ot this is the case)

I have fitted about 6 pumps before so not worried about the job...

hmmm

Danny04 · Unread post by **Danny04** » 03 Dec 2006, 20:45

I had a similar problem three years ago on a Pug 405 and it turned out to be a craked casing where the fuel pipes run into the back of the engine block just above off side wishbone quick fix is to remove both pipes from engine block and join directly together.

whitecrook2 · Unread post by **whitecrook2** » 03 Dec 2006, 21:00

I had a simliar problem, had to renew the small flexi hoses running between the injectors, they had become brittle and weere letting air in. Also, check the union nuts between the pump and the injectors.

Unread post by **philhoward** » 03 Dec 2006, 21:02

Mine (Xantia TD, Bosch pump) had almost exact symptoms and was minute splits in the leak off pipes from the injectors. They looked fine and actually had a little bit of flex in them, but got some leak-off pipe (make sure you get the plug for the last injector..normally comes with it, but check) to change them.
Pulled the first one off and it left part of the pipe on the injector! Changed the lot and it was fine from then onwards. I had no fuel leak, but the degrading pipe allowed air in.

I probably paid over the odds for the pipe (£6 from Halfrauds), but it did come with the end stub. Was worth every penny not to have to prime it every time!

Wishy · Unread post by **Wishy** » 12 Dec 2006, 21:37

Hi all,
Just got a Xantia TD as a winter run around and looks like I have exactly this same problem (always fires on cold starting but cuts out unless revs are given for a few minutes, once warm though engine runs fine).

Let me know how you get on, I'll be having a go some of the tips on this thread at the weekend.

Cheers
Dave

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 12 Dec 2006, 22:38

One other thing worth checking is your valve clearances. They do close up over time and are tightest when the engine is cold. Just a little heat opens them a bit to allow good compression and starting. You could just be chasing shadows looking for air-leaks although it has to be said, it is easier and best to exclude every other possibility before taking the rocker cover off and checking. Reshimming an XUD is not the easiest job in the world.

On the subject of leaky pumps, it is possible to do a DIY rebuild and recently on a well-known auction site a firm was offering Bosch overhaul kits. It is not as scary as you might first think if you work carefully, methodically and in spotlessly clean conditions. A job for the kitchen table (without the knowledge of SWMBO of course!).