Timing belt

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
curly
Posts: 33
Joined: 25 Aug 2006, 04:28
Location: suffolk
My Cars:

Timing belt

Post by curly »

Hello everyone can you help please my C5 is very rough on a cold start but once hot carms down, could this be the cambelt as this was changed when I bought the car and I don't remember the car doing this when I took it for a test drive
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

nop its more than likly glow plug/s,or thats the first thing to check,thats if its a diesel
regards malcolm
JohnD
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2632
Joined: 14 Mar 2001, 23:41
Location: Epsom, Surrey
My Cars: 2010 Citroen C5-X7 tourer
1998 Citroen Saxo 1.5D
2018 Citroen C4-B7
1998 Peugeot 306. 1.9D
2011 Citroen C1
x 72
Contact:

Post by JohnD »

Glowplugs!!! My understanding of HDI's is that glowplugs don't operate unless it is extremely cold. I would be loooking for air in the fuel lines.
2010 C5 X7 VTR+Nav 160
1998 1.5 Saxo
1998 Pug 306 1.9D
2018 C4 B7 VTR+
2011 Citroen C1
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10814
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 984

Post by RichardW »

Glow plugs, air in fuel lines, timing* - all non events on HDis.

Is it actually a HDi though? Could be a petrol where the CTS has gone AWOL :?

* Although the pump doesn't need to be timed, the camshaft does, but it's pretty difficult to get that wrong - most errors on XUD timing come on dropping a tooth on the pump. Anyway, it doesn't really sound like cam timing to me.
Richard W
jeremy
Posts: 3959
Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 16:00
Location: Hampshire, UK
My Cars:
x 2

Post by jeremy »

By rough - do you mean it makes strange noises but runs Ok otherwise - or basically isn't running on all cylinders?

If its just making noises it may be that the auxilliary drive belt isn't tight - which is more likely if the cambelt has been changed as I expect it was removed for this. Othe possibilities are noisy tensioner pulleys (get sorted before they disintegrate)

Also worth checking the crankshaft pulley - 2 possibilities here - first is that the bolt in the centre isn't tight - second is that the bonded pulley has - er - become unbonded. - check by making a mark accross the bonding - take for a run and see if the 2 parts have shifted - ie is the line straight!
jeremy
curly
Posts: 33
Joined: 25 Aug 2006, 04:28
Location: suffolk
My Cars:

timing belt

Post by curly »

Sorry guys forgot to tell you which engine I have it's 2.2 hdi theproblem is not so much noise more the fact of when you start on cold mornings the car sits there and you are bouncing with it ( not alot but enough to make you think is something wrong ) .I had a diesel mondeo a few years ago and had the cambelt done which came back with the same symptoms and on looking into it if the engine and the pump are slightly out when fitting the cambelt (by about 2mm ) this would cause the engine when starting from cold to sound like a tractor .I don't know if on the 2.2 HDI the pump is run from the engine by another belt ( like ford ) but if so could this be why the car starts like that .
P.S once hot it runs okay
Curly (First time Cit owner) :cry:
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

as far as im aware the pump on HDIs is of an electric type so its not driven by the engine,did this only show after the belt was fitted,if so i would take it back to were it was done
regards malcolm
JohnD
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2632
Joined: 14 Mar 2001, 23:41
Location: Epsom, Surrey
My Cars: 2010 Citroen C5-X7 tourer
1998 Citroen Saxo 1.5D
2018 Citroen C4-B7
1998 Peugeot 306. 1.9D
2011 Citroen C1
x 72
Contact:

Post by JohnD »

We're talking fuel pumps here? It's driven by the cambelt. A tooth out would certainly give you a 'tractor' noise. I did it years ago on my 2.1
2010 C5 X7 VTR+Nav 160
1998 1.5 Saxo
1998 Pug 306 1.9D
2018 C4 B7 VTR+
2011 Citroen C1
miked
Posts: 274
Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 21:26
Location: Up North, but not as far as Scotland.
My Cars: Xsara SX (2003) Last of the line.
x 6

Post by miked »

As RichardW pointed out, the high pressure fuel pump is driven by the cambelt but relies on a camshaft position sensor to syncronise the fuel injections, so it does not need timed.

Could it be water temperature sensor thinking it is already warm on startup? - See
http://www.christiantena.pwp.blueyonder ... operation/ high pressure pump section
jeremy
Posts: 3959
Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 16:00
Location: Hampshire, UK
My Cars:
x 2

Post by jeremy »

2.2HDI has a common rail fuel injection system whih means that the timing is controlled by the ECU operating electric injectors - this has all sorts of advantages - like enabling phased injection - 3 pulses to get rid of the familiar knock when cold etc.

The timing is triggered by a sensor from the crankshaft (flywheel?). There is no injection pump powered by the cambelt. There is ahigh pressure injection pump and a low pressure lift pump at the tank.
jeremy
miked
Posts: 274
Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 21:26
Location: Up North, but not as far as Scotland.
My Cars: Xsara SX (2003) Last of the line.
x 6

Post by miked »

The Crankshaft (flywheel) sensor is used for engine RPM, but the TDC sensor is definitely on the camshaft
curly
Posts: 33
Joined: 25 Aug 2006, 04:28
Location: suffolk
My Cars:

timing belt

Post by curly »

Thanks Jeremy and all, so if the cambelt does not affect the timing what could the problem be as the car ran fine when I first saw it, could something have been disturbed while cambelt was being changed? also I read on another post that if the cambelt had been put on wrong you would have a lack of power ? if so I can honestly say my car goes like s**t off a shovel so that means it is not the cambelt.
Do you think I'm being a little paranoid about it because once the car is warm it seems to run fine. :?
jeremy
Posts: 3959
Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 16:00
Location: Hampshire, UK
My Cars:
x 2

Post by jeremy »

I'm sure Miked is right when he says that the timing for the injection is taken from the CAMshaft.

The point I was really trying to make is that the HDi engines do not have the mechanical belt driven injection pump as used by the earlier engines.
jeremy
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

even though the pump is not driven by the cam belt it dose not stop the timming beeing put out byt the cam belt maybe a tooth or so out,as its not only down to pump timming its also cam timming
regards malcolm
JohnD
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2632
Joined: 14 Mar 2001, 23:41
Location: Epsom, Surrey
My Cars: 2010 Citroen C5-X7 tourer
1998 Citroen Saxo 1.5D
2018 Citroen C4-B7
1998 Peugeot 306. 1.9D
2011 Citroen C1
x 72
Contact:

Post by JohnD »

even though the pump is not driven by the cam belt

The point I was really trying to make is that the HDi engines do not have the mechanical belt driven injection pump




Am I missing something here! I'm looking at Autodata's pages on the C5 2.2D HDI and the cambelt clearly goes round the Crank, WP, Tensioner, Cam pulley, Fuel pump and idler pulley. Notes do state that the pump doesn't need timing.
2010 C5 X7 VTR+Nav 160
1998 1.5 Saxo
1998 Pug 306 1.9D
2018 C4 B7 VTR+
2011 Citroen C1
Post Reply