Flat Spheres after 6 months?

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 01 Oct 2006, 21:25

I changed all corner spheres on my xantia 6 months ago, and my accu sphere about 3 months ago. The fluid has been changed (although I did leave the hydraflush in there a little longer than recommended)

I haven't changed the center rear sphere tho.

I've noticed that the suspension seemed a little firmer than usual a couple of weeks ago. It has got a little worse over the past couple of weeks, and is now not the magic carpet ride that it was when I orginally changed the spheres.

I'm pretty sure that the spheres were recon, and not new courtesy of my local motor factors. They had a date of late 2005 printed on them, which I assume is when they were gassed, so they've not been sitting around for donkeys and gone flat.

Does this just sound like poor quality recon spheres, or is there likely to be anything else contributing to this? Obviously I don't want to change all the spheres again to find out that it wasn't them.

(BTW, the setup is the basic one sphere on each corner with anti sink)

Thanks!

Post by **Peter.N.** » 01 Oct 2006, 22:19

If its hydractive, the centre spheres are the ones responsible for the soft ride, the outer ones only are in operation when the suspension is in the 'hard' sport mode. Or, could it be that the setting is stuck in sport mode, you should be able to test this by bouncing one or more corners with the engine running, then switch it off, shut the doors, and wait for the'click' from the solonoid valves under the car (about 30 secs) and bounce again, it should be stiffer.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 02 Oct 2006, 00:09

Actually I've found the corner spheres do still influence the ride in the soft mode quite a lot. I just replaced the rear outer spheres only (centre one was done late last year) and the ride improved a lot in both modes.

From what I've seen it seems that the centre sphere is mainly responsible for the soft ride over small irregularities, (and slow undulations) and without it you won't get that "floaty" feeling in soft mode, but the corner spheres seem to play a large role in the absorption of large bumps even in the soft mode, and especially for large independant wheel movements. (Such as going over judder bumps, dropping off the curb etc)

So a good centre sphere and flat corner spheres can give a ride that seems soft over small bumps but is caught out by large/sudden/violent bumps...

Regards,
Simon

KP · Post by KP » 02 Oct 2006, 00:16

Id personally try new spheres instead.
Check the color of the LHM and ensure its still good maybe.
Try the bounce test at each corner as well and see what you get.

Mine need doing at the rear as i feel the car is a bit stiffer at the rear than our 2.1td but it has totally new stuff up front and the back isnt too old either so its certainly doing well

Being an LX id ignore the soft setting info above as you wont have that button on your dash or centre console

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 02 Oct 2006, 10:16

Do the Citaerobics please

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 02 Oct 2006, 10:56

Thanks for the replies. It was starting to get firm before I changed the hydraflush for LHM. I did plenty of citerobics at the change, but it didn't make any difference.

I'll give it a good session later and see if that helps. If not, it looks like new spheres

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 02 Oct 2006, 21:42

If the spheres were regassed they should still be OK providing they weren't allowed to get below 50% charge before they were redone.
Over here, regassing is more the rule than the exception due to the rip off prices charged for new spheres - (A$200+ per sphere being common):shock: and even regassed, if done properly will last 2 - 3 years.
I remember a couple of years back, some reckoning that the anti sink going flat had seriously affected the ride, so might be worthy of looking at other spheres on the car apart from the corner ones. The place who supplied the spheres may even have a tester and taking the fronts off isn't all that big a deal, so get them tested for starters and if they check out, go looking at the others underneath as the problem.

Alan S

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 03 Oct 2006, 07:57

After doing some citerobics last night, the fronts seem fine. But the rear is very firm - I haven't done the anti-sink sphere at all though, perhaps changing this would be worthwhile?

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 03 Oct 2006, 08:40

That's the option I'd take.
My VSX was like a bullock dray when I bought it; the front spheres were down a bit but basically OK, the hydractives were pretty well done for and the anti sink was totally shagged. I replaced all bar the frnts and made a different car out of it.
I guess you know the secret with removing it? It doesn't screw on like a normal sphere; it has a pipe screwed into the back of it. Some reckon an 8mm spanner is needed to remove it but IIRC I had to use a 9mm on mine.
You also need a nice big clean container to catch all the LHM that will dribble out of it. If left overnight, up to a litre can come out; not a nice job cleaning it up if you're unaware it's going to do it to you.

Alan S

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 06 Oct 2006, 21:24

Thanks for the replies!

Now, just a bit of an update.....

When I was driving the car last night, I was sure that one side on the rear was OK, but the other was not. When I got home, I did the bounce test, and lo and behold, one side on the rear is now fine. The other is still hard as buggery! Even though they were both pretty damn hard a few days ago.

That means that 3 out of the 4 corners are now OK.

God know what the hell is going on with it. No amount of citerobics makes any difference.

I guess I'll just change the anti-sink soon, and see what happens then!

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 06 Oct 2006, 22:05

HOW are you doing the Citaerobics ?

Full and truly down - then wait at least some 20 seconds - then full & truly up - then wait at least 30 seconds for the sphere contents to compress ?

Its not just playing back & forth with height setting !

Any chance air keeps getting in through the pump feed hose ?
Honestly - any chance ?

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 06 Oct 2006, 22:14

Yep, I'm doing the full citerobics. Full height, wait a minute once it's reached it, then lowest setting, and waiting a minute once it's down.

What would be the best way to check if air is getting in?

Richard Gallagher · Post by **Richard Gallagher** » 06 Oct 2006, 22:31

As a guide to whether air has got into the rear of the system, under braking the rear of the car will be inclined lift (it normally drops to counteract diving at the front).

If air is in the system you may also feel a strange pulse/'squidging' briefly to the brake pedal as its applied.

To remove air at the rear of the system (where it always seems to collect) there appears to be no alternative other then to bleed the brakes.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 06 Oct 2006, 22:32

If you look in the reservoir with the engine running you may be able to see evidence of air in the LHM - bubbles - or milky green LHM.

Otherwise examine the thick hose going from the reservoir to the pump - looking at the ends which must be sound and tightly clamped, and the rest must be good too - it can perish and become porous.

The problem is that the hose and its ends are subject to vacuum rather than internal pressure and so leaks are of air getting in rather than LHM getting out - which would of course leave a trace.

Has it got a sealed pump (usually looks like the outside is a rounded tin can) or a pump with externally visible bolts holding the body together. If it has one of these its possible that bolts have worked loose.

Air can only get in before the pump - the pressure provided by the pump is enormous - and will spray out of any weak points.

Bad ride can be caused by many factors - obviously main suspension spheres - anti-sinks only provide a reserve of high pressure LHM for when the valve opens - and before the pump can replemish what is lost. The reserve is really for the back brakes but the back suspension may drop. providing the valve is opening this sphere shouldn't make any difference to the ride.

Other causes are incorrect ride height - seizure somewhere - generally front struts or trailing arm bearings.

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 06 Oct 2006, 22:43

I've just been out and done another good bout of citerobics. Leaving it for at least a couple of mins on low each time to ensure that as much fluid drains back as possible - but it's still just the same.

I don't think it's trailing arm bearings, as the car goes up and down smoothly.

I'm not entirely convinced it's air eithr, as the rear doesn't rise under breaking, and the car breaks very well, with no pulsing etc either. But I will go and check it out.

One thing that I have noticed though, is that if you drop the car down and leave it for a couple of the mins, and then put the lever on the normal height setting, the rear won't rise at all. It will only rise when you put the lever on high, wait a minute for the car to pick up a bit, and then put the lever back to the normal setting. The rear will then settle at the correct height. Has this anything to do with the harsh ride maybe?